Boasting

[Skandelon]

Amen. I have no boast but of the Lord. Soli Deo Gloria. :godisgood:

Amen, you can boast that you understand and know Him. I'm glad we finally agree!:wavey:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Scripture says, "he that humbleth himself shall be exalted," not "he that God humbles shall be exalted." The law and HS brings conviction to the world, so in that manner the Lord's chosen means do "break" or humble us, but not effectually so, as the passage says, one must "humble himself."

Give me chapt & verse

 

[Skandelon]

Give me chapt & verse

Luke 18:

13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' 14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

[Skandelon]

Here are some others which say the same thing:

Matthew 18:4
Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

James 4:10
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

1 Peter 5:5
Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.

Daniel 10:12
"Don't be afraid, Daniel," he said to me, "for from the first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your prayers were heard. I have come because of your prayers.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Here are some others which say the same thing:

Matthew 18:4
Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

James 4:10
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

1 Peter 5:5
Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.

Daniel 10:12
"Don't be afraid, Daniel," he said to me, "for from the first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your prayers were heard. I have come because of your prayers.

OK

Jonah 2:9
9 But I, with shouts of grateful praise,
will sacrifice to you.
What I have vowed I will make good.
I will say, ‘Salvation comes from the LORD.’”

Ephesians 2:8
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

 

[Skandelon]

OK

Jonah 2:9
9 But I, with shouts of grateful praise,
will sacrifice to you.
What I have vowed I will make good.
I will say, ‘Salvation comes from the LORD.’”

Ephesians 2:8
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

And?

What do those passages have to do with the other? We all affirm salvation comes from the Lord.

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation.

We also affirm that salvation is not of ourselves, but from him. Even faith itself is an ability granted to us by God...faith comes through hearing God's message of reconciliation. So, these passages say nothing that address our points of contention.

Deal with the verses I presented about humbling yourself. Why doesn't it say "God humbles us" instead?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And?

What do those passages have to do with the other? We all affirm salvation comes from the Lord.

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation.

We also affirm that salvation is not of ourselves, but from him. Even faith itself is an ability granted to us by God...faith comes through hearing God's message of reconciliation. So, these passages say nothing that address our points of contention.

Deal with the verses I presented about humbling yourself. Why doesn't it say "God humbles us" instead?

Im referring to salvation only

 

[J.D.]

Brain teaser: Can the Humble be proud of their humility?

 

[J.D.]

The problem with boasting is that it's not so much a matter of people crying out "I saved myself!", but it is the implication intrinsically contained in free will theology. It always comes down to the person's act of faith. Paul makes it clear that boasting is excluded by God's action and man's passivity: "For of God are you in Christ" (1 Cor 1:30).

 

[Skandelon]

Brain teaser: Can the Humble be proud of their humility?

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that I'm the most humble person I know! :tongue3:

 

[Skandelon]

The problem with boasting is that it's not so much a matter of people crying out "I saved myself!", but it is the implication intrinsically contained in free will theology.

An implication you presume upon "free will theology," just as if I claimed anti-evangelism was intrinsically contained in Calvinistic theology.

It always comes down to the person's act of faith. Paul makes it clear that boasting is excluded by God's action and man's passivity: "For of God are you in Christ" (1 Cor 1:30).

1. This statement begs the question by presuming the passivity of man in salvation, a point up for debate.

2. We agree with 1 Cor. 1:30 that our being in Christ is a work of God, just not irresistibly so.

3. And scripture is very clear that if one goes to hell and perishes it is due to their unbelief, so in that manner it does "always come down to the person's act of faith."

 

[Skandelon]

Im referring to salvation only

So am I.

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation.

 

[Skandelon]

Earth, Wind and Fire,

See, what you need to understand is that humility can lead one to faith. This is why Jesus points to a child and calls men to humble themselves as a child in order to enter his kingdom. Why else would Jesus speak of the difficulty of a rich or intelligent man entering heaven? Those who are rich and intelligent often struggle with pride (something God hates), and very often cannot ever seem to "humble themselves." This is why God teaches that it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom.

If it is all about unconditional election and effectual callings the youth/humility of a child wouldn't matter, nor would the pride of riches.

 

[Luke2427]

And?

What do those passages have to do with the other? We all affirm salvation comes from the Lord.

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation.

We also affirm that salvation is not of ourselves, but from him. Even faith itself is an ability granted to us by God...faith comes through hearing God's message of reconciliation. So, these passages say nothing that address our points of contention.

Deal with the verses I presented about humbling yourself. Why doesn't it say "God humbles us" instead?

It doesn't have to for that to be clearly understood.

John 15:5 affirms: I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Scripture repeatedly bears out that BY HIM ALL things consist.

And there is NONE the fear God. Fearing God IS humility and there are NONE that do that themselves.

So when Scripture says to humble yourself it obviously is a command that God must bring to pass IN YOU.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It doesn't have to for that to be clearly understood.

John 15:5 affirms: I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Scripture repeatedly bears out that BY HIM ALL things consist.

And there is NONE the fear God. Fearing God IS humility and there are NONE that do that themselves.

So when Scripture says to humble yourself it obviously is a command that God must bring to pass IN YOU.

Bravo :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Aaron]

Earth, Wind and Fire,

See, what you need to understand is that humility can lead one to faith. This is why Jesus points to a child and calls men to humble themselves as a child in order to enter his kingdom. Why else would Jesus speak of the difficulty of a rich or intelligent man entering heaven? Those who are rich and intelligent often struggle with pride (something God hates), and very often cannot ever seem to "humble themselves." This is why God teaches that it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom.

If it is all about unconditional election and effectual callings the youth/humility of a child wouldn't matter, nor would the pride of riches.

Children aren't humble. They're the most proud and arrogant organisms on the planet. When Christ said to that one must humble himself as a child, he wasn't alluding to the child's attitude. He was alluding to the child's state of being—complete and total dependence upon his parents. A child does not conceive himself, nor deliver himself in birth. He does not cleanse, feed, teach or discipline himself.

Every thing about the child was chosen for him and done for him by someone else.

And Christ doesn't call men to humble themselves. He calls converts to humble themselves. He said, "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." THEN He says "Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Becoming as a little child requires conversion, and we cannot convert ourselves. The leper cannot change his spots, neither the Ethiopian his skin.

 

[freeatlast]

The problem with boasting is that it's not so much a matter of people crying out "I saved myself!", but it is the implication intrinsically contained in free will theology. It always comes down to the person's act of faith. Paul makes it clear that boasting is excluded by God's action and man's passivity: "For of God are you in Christ" (1 Cor 1:30).

I would agree with you if that faith was ours. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

However that does not mean we do not have the will to reject the faith given. I know of many people who believe everything taught about the Lord and will even argue that it is all true but they simply do not want Him to rule their lives so they remain in their sin.
Stating a fact does not make it a boast. Claiming that I am sufficient to apart from God is.

 

[Skandelon]

It doesn't have to for that to be clearly understood.

John 15:5 affirms: I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Agreed, which is why we affirm that we NEED Him in order to be saved. That is NOT our point of contention.

Scripture repeatedly bears out that BY HIM ALL things consist.

Agreed.

And there is NONE the fear God. Fearing God IS humility and there are NONE that do that themselves.

Agreed. No one is arguing we are doing this by ourselves. Try to stick to our points of contention, otherwise we just go in circles.

So when Scripture says to humble yourself it obviously is a command that God must bring to pass IN YOU.

Correct. And what are the means God uses to humble men? Law, Holy Spirit, Gospel, Envy, Miracles

Again, not one of these means is "irresistible" but they are necessary to bring about the change in the heart. So, let's talk about our point of contention now, ok?

 

[Skandelon]

Children aren't humble. They're the most proud and arrogant organisms on the planet. When Christ said to that one must humble himself as a child, he wasn't alluding to the child's attitude.

That argument might hold some weight if experience backed it up. Truth is that children are MUCH more receptive to the teaching of the gospel. There attitude is much less prideful and arrogant and stubborn than that of adults when confronting them with the concept of sin and repentance. Statistics of current believers coming to know Christ as a child also bare this out.

It is the same reason Jesus speaks of the difficulty of a rich man entering the kingdom. Rich are notoriously prideful and lack humility. The ability of them to humble themselves is far more unlikely than that of a poor slave or broken prostitute at the end of their rope.

You just can't get around all the times that the scripture calls people to "humble themselves," but you want to dismiss that as being a call only to those who have already been saved. These verses contradict that view:

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation. [notice it doesn't say "humility is the crown of those saved."]

Job 22:29 When men are brought low and you say, 'Lift them up!' then he will save the downcast.

Luke 18:14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." [Clearly, Jesus equates "being justified" (saved) with being "exalted." A result of the one who "humbles himself."

 

[Aaron]

That argument might hold some weight if experience backed it up.

I have better than experience, I have Scripture.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Truth is that children are MUCH more receptive to the teaching of the gospel.

They'll believe in Santa Claus and the Boogey Man if you tell them they're real. That's foolishness, not faith.

You just can't get around all the times that the scripture calls people to "humble themselves," but you want to dismiss that as being a call only to those who have already been saved.

Conversion is still the prerequisite, and no one can convert himself. The leper cannot change his spots, nor the Ethiopian his skin.