Bob Grey / Trinity Baptist official news

Thank You Rev...

My point exactly...

And, you related it so well...

It can not be related strongly enough that even with the lack of *any* physical evidence...

The charge of Sexual Misconduct is virtually impossible to defend against...

In this case all people who minister need to have a "Touch of Paranoia"...

SMM

 

No denials have come forth from Bob Gray or the staff that handled his "job change" in '91, or his lawyers. Their statements are tantamount to admission that the charges are based in facts. Accepting this is not judging the matter before hearing it. What remains to be revealed is the extent of the offenses.

It is true, as SMM said, that "The charge of Sexual Misconduct is virtually impossible to defend against." Nevertheless, if you are in a responsible position and someone else makes such a charge, you have little choice but to notify the police immediately. You are not making the accusation, you are reporting it.

 

It isn't that difficult to help and protect yourself from false charges. When I taught school, I NEVER allowed myself to be in any classroom with a child by myself, regardless of whether or not the door was open. If I had a student come to my room during my off period, I would not allow them to come into the room while we were alone. If they needed a book or something else from my room, I would go outside in the hallway by the door and then allow the student to enter and get whatever they needed while I waited by the door.

 

It is very sad indeed. I got a call from my sister (her and her husband and kids are missionaries to Cambodia) and she told me. Her church supported Gray's work in Germany, I don't know what they have done yet.

Here is his picture along w/ a news story,

Sad day indeed. I wish it were not true, but I see no reason to think it is not true.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/9273998/detail.html

And something else, has nothing to do w/ the above news report.
http://www.fairview4u.org/hall/index.php?name=gray

 

Pipedude, do you think an individual who is in a responsible position would be obligated to report an accusation that he/she has a serious reason(s) to question the accusation? ie: someone who has proven to be a liar and who he/she strongly believes the accuser has improper motives.

 

You can research the laws here.

I don't profess to know the ins and outs of carefully crafted hypothetical scenarios, but the statutes I read said that any person with a reason to believe that abuse is taking place has an obligation. In ordinary life, a little resourcefulness will increase one's knowledge of a situation wonderfully: ask, confront, investigate.

A church should not think that they will handle the problem themselves, rehab the offender, and ship him safely off to Germany.

 

:tear: I just have a few comments to make and then it is off to bed. I was a member at Trinity and a student at the college in 81 and 82 and was ...at the time trying my best to walk with God and determine just what it was the Lord wanted to do with my life.My 1st wife (that is another story altogether) was a BJ grad that taught at the academy. As a couple we sat under Bro.Gray's ministry and I remember those years as good ones where I was challenged by some of the best preaching I have ever heard EVEN TO THIS DAY. It was after receiving direct and private counsel from Bro.Gray that my wife and I decided to try for our first child and my oldest son was the result(and I praise God).Even though things have been complicated for me in the years since I still have no regrets for the time I was at Trinity. All this saddens me greatly and makes me wonder just how the devil can wreak such havoc. Brothers and Sisters...we need now,more than ever,to HATE SIN and pray for the Lord to protect us. Bro.Gray was a wonderful preacher whose ministry seemed so fruitful. It is just difficult to image how someone with this kind of moral sin/defect could stand in a pulpit week after week..year after year and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ without apparent remorse or consequence. I am all for forgiveness and I think as Bible-Believers (that is our rule for faith and practice...remember?) we should be looking for the high road to take here however possible...while still attending to the hurt and broken lives of the victims of this sin(if it is indeed true) .I would remind all of us that Bro.Gray is also a victim....of his own sin .....JUST LIKE ALL OF US.

I would also like to put forth one more thing....I have read many of the posts on here that advocate one form of action or another about this....mostly legal stuff involving the worldly authorities. I'm not saying that any of that is inappropriate. However....how does OUR RULE FOR FAITH AND PRACTICE as Christians say this matter should be handled? What is the SCRIPTURAL mandate here.I have not seen much mention of how the "church" should handle this. I'm not sure how myself so if anyone would care to offer the scriptural remedy for this mess I'd like to hear it.It is definitely worth studying out and knowing. In the meantime,I think we should all be praying for the victims as well as the church family at Trinity and also for Bro. Gray and his family. I do believe that God is still on His Throne and has a plan for His own glory that will bring about some blessing or greater purpose that maybe nobody can see or know about as of yet.HE is in control...no matter how it may seem sometime.raying: :saint:

Greg Sr. P.S.Squire...please let this thread go on a bit longer or lets start another that seeks the scriptural remedy for this kind of trouble.Thanks.

 

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

The above verse taken from the KJV is a powerful one to apply in this situation.

Ye which are spiritual restore such an one...
Do what you can to bring the one that has fallen, that has given in to the lusts of the flesh back to right standing with God.

As we do not know if Dr. Gray has since repented of this great sin, we should be praying that God and the Holy Spirit will draw him closer to His Son.


...in the spirit of meakness;...

Do not be quick to condemn Dr. Gray to hell. Love him with the Love of the Lord. The Lord would certainly go out as a good Shepherd after the lamb sheep that has strayed from the fold.

...considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
We all are still in these flesh bodies, and because of this we are all prone to sin against ourselves, against our neighbors, against God. Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed, lest he fall.

Paul spoke of warring against the flesh many times and stated in his letter to the Romans that, '...the evil that I would not, that I do.'

Consider yourselves before passing judgment. And ask God to help you to pray for those who have stumbled along the way. Jesus spoke of 'a certain Samaritan' when asked the question, 'Who is my neighbor?'

Are you a neighbor? Or will you look down on the fallen and step over to the other side of the road?

In Christ Jesus,
Brother Ron

 

What about rebuking a fellow Christian three times for heresy/gross immorality, and then casting him out? Titus. Somewhere.

Wait, that was Clinton.

The Scriptures say two. Still the conclusion in Titus/1 Cor.

Gotta run.

Anyhow, there you go.

Plus if child molestors were given the death penalty like they aught, it isn't a problem anyhow.

Here's the Cor passage.


1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, F16 not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

This passage is not speaking of a Christian, IMO. This passage is speaking of one who causes division in the Body of Christ. The Greek word for heretick is translated 'schismatic.'

If Dr Gray were trying to cause division in the body of Christ, then this verse certainly would apply. But certainly I do not believe he meant to cause a division in the Body of Christ. If he were trying to cause division in the Body, he would have been found out a long time ago and certainly would not have been preaching the gospel as he had for so many years.

In Christ Jesus,
Brother Ron