Book of John repentance and believing?

[Matty123]

Why does the book of John in the KJV not once have the word repent but have the word believe or believed 85 times?

I've come to the conclusion that faith and repentance are inseparable, and that by believing on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, one has also repented. Repentance is acknowledging one's sinnership in the eyes of a holy God—admitting that I am as dirty and guilty a sinner as God hath declared me to be in His Holy Word.

I don't believe you turn from sins to trust Jesus but rather you turn to Jesus to receive the gift of forgiveness.

 

[Van]

Excellent OP Matty123!

I agree, "repentance" and "faith" are two sides of the same coin. Another pastor I sat under called it "turning and trusting." Generally we turn from a self directed life to a life directed by our Lord (boss) and Savior, Jesus Christ.

So just as James defines "faith" as "live faith" or faith from which faithfulness flows, live faith includes following Christ rather than (1) Satan, (2) the World, and (3) Fleshly desires.

And another (I think) bogus view is that "repentance" is instilled, rather than as I believe "allowed." If God hardens a person's heart, repentance has not be granted. Otherwise God allows us to "come to our senses" and turn to God.

As a footnote, the Greek word translated repentance is actually a military term and means "about face."

 

[percho]

How about, the Son became the obedience of faith (belief), allowing the Father to grant repentance?

 

[Alan Gross]

Why does the book of John in the KJV not once have the word repent but have the word believe or believed 85 times?

I've come to the conclusion that faith and repentance are inseparable, and that by believing on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, one has also repented. Repentance is acknowledging one's sinnership in the eyes of a holy God—admitting that I am as dirty and guilty a sinner as God hath declared me to be in His Holy Word.

I don't believe you turn from sins to trust Jesus but rather you turn to Jesus to receive the gift of forgiveness.

Believe intends, "Trust".

Repentance is implied.

Repeat and Believe.

Once God has the Preaching of The Word of God Used to Convict the sinner, they are in the POSITION to Be Enabled to Repent & Believe.

In The Bible, Repentance and Faith are Twin Doctrines.

Genuine Repentance is always Accompanied by Genuine Faith.

Repentance toward God, meaning the abandonment of self to AGREE WITH GOD AND HIS WORD,
then Faith in The Person, Work, Basis, Foundation, Rock of Ages, and Perfectly Obedient Mediator between God and man, the Second Person of The Triune Godhead, Who Loved us and Gave Himself for us.

Human beings are hopeless sinners.

Jesus is The Saviour.

Believe means Believe, to THE SAVING of THE SOUL.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Many places in the NT (not just John) not ALL the doctrinal intricacies are listed. They often just substitute in one over-arching key word and the reader understands that word is a "place holder" for the entire scope of salvation.

Example: Acts 20:21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of REPENTANCE toward God and of FAITH in our Lord Jesus Christ. And Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the foundational doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of REPENTANCE from dead works and of FAITH toward God.

One could look and say that salvation is 1) repentance and 2) faith. Nothing more, nothing less.

But those are just condensed summary words entailing ALL the doctrines of salvation:
Election
Calling
Regeneration
Redemption
Conversion
Justification
Adoption
Sanctification
et al

 

[Van]

How about, the Son became the obedience of faith (belief), allowing the Father to grant repentance?

What verse says Christ "became" the "obedience of faith?"
What prevented God from granting (allowing) repentance before Christ died? I seem to recall "repentance" in the OT!

Isa 30:15 (NASB)
For thus the Lord [fn]GOD, the Holy One of Israel, has said,
“In repentance and rest you will be saved,
In quietness and trust is your strength.”
But you were not willing,

The concept of turning from whatever to trust fully in God is found all through the OT.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Many places in the NT (not just John) not ALL the doctrinal intricacies are listed. They often just substitute in one over-arching key word and the reader understands that word is a "place holder" for the entire scope of salvation.

Example: Acts 20:21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of REPENTANCE toward God and of FAITH in our Lord Jesus Christ. And Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the foundational doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of REPENTANCE from dead works and of FAITH toward God.

One could look and say that salvation is 1) repentance and 2) faith. Nothing more, nothing less.

But those are just condensed summary words entailing ALL the doctrines of salvation:
Election
Calling
Regeneration
Redemption
Conversion
Justification
Adoption
Sanctification
et al

is it not better to view the book of John and Acts in its historical narrative ? especially the book of Acts ( The Acts of the APOSTLES ) many will quote john 6 for example as if every thing Jesus said is directed to them, when in fact Jesus is speaking to the Disciples / apostles or Jews . Or He's speaking before the cross .Many will quote the book of Acts as examples how we are to be saved today when there is at least 5 different examples.

 

[atpollard]

is it not better to view the book of John and Acts in its historical narrative ?

No, it is not "better".

 

[37818]

New Why does the book of John in the KJV not once have the word repent but have the word believe or believed 85 times?

Simple, in order to believe something not aready believed one must change one's mind or view. In the few places in the NT were both repentance and faith are use repentance precedes faith. A key example, Mark 1:15. The Church of Christ cults teach works salvation were faith must be followed by repentance and baptism. Also Mormonism.

 

[Barry Johnson]

No, it is not "better".

So you read all verses as if Jesus is speaking to you directly ? And you understand how salvation applies from the Acts of the Apostles ? All 5 different ways salvation is presented ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Why does the book of John in the KJV not once have the word repent but have the word believe or believed 85 times?

I've come to the conclusion that faith and repentance are inseparable, and that by believing on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, one has also repented. Repentance is acknowledging one's sinnership in the eyes of a holy God—admitting that I am as dirty and guilty a sinner as God hath declared me to be in His Holy Word.

I don't believe you turn from sins to trust Jesus but rather you turn to Jesus to receive the gift of forgiveness.

It depends on when we see the word 'repentance 'used and in what context.

 

[atpollard]

So you read all verses as if Jesus is speaking to you directly ?

Nope, not ALL verses. I just do not discard entire books as "not written for Christians" ... Certainly not all 4 Gospels!

 

[Barry Johnson]

Why does the book of John in the KJV not once have the word repent but have the word believe or believed 85 times?

I've come to the conclusion that faith and repentance are inseparable, and that by believing on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, one has also repented. Repentance is acknowledging one's sinnership in the eyes of a holy God—admitting that I am as dirty and guilty a sinner as God hath declared me to be in His Holy Word.

I don't believe you turn from sins to trust Jesus but rather you turn to Jesus to receive the gift of forgiveness.

Mat 21 shows that Repenting here is a change of mind .
28¶But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented and went (he changed his mind and went )
30And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you

Nope, not ALL verses. I just do not discard entire books as "not written for Christians" ... Certainly not all 4 Gospels!

No one is saying' entire books ' as not written for Christians. However do you read like a Charasmatic as they see every verse speaking to them personally ? . No , when Jesus is speaking to Jews , he's actually speaking to Jews . When Jesus is speaking to the 12 or the disciples, He really is speaking to the 12 or disciples . We read all other books this way. All of a sudden when it comes to the bible all normal rules of reading go out the window for some christians and they see every time Jesus speaks as if its directly to them . Try these verses for example. Do you read theses as speaking to you ?
12¶And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
13¶And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him.
14And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
Are you offering to the Priest , as Moses Commanded ? if not ,why not ? why would you ignore these commands ?

 

[atpollard]

Do you read theses as speaking to you ?
12¶And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
13¶And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him.
14And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Yes. I am not a leper being commanded to fulfill the Law of Moses for my cleansing, but the Bible teaches in typologies and those verses were recorded because they hold lessons for people like me. Understanding the context INCREASES my understanding of how that truth applies to me; it does not cause me to shrug it off as "that was for Jews and I am not a Jew".

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yes. I am not a leper being commanded to fulfill the Law of Moses for my cleansing, but the Bible teaches in typologies and those verses were recorded because they hold lessons for people like me. Understanding the context INCREASES my understanding of how that truth applies to me; it does not cause me to shrug it off as "that was for Jews and I am not a Jew".

Ok you might be missing the point here . Let's try this one . Mathew 10 .
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Is this Jesus speaking to you , or about you , or for you to follow ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

No, it is not "better".

Why does the book of John in the KJV not once have the word repent but have the word believe or believed 85 times?

I've come to the conclusion that faith and repentance are inseparable, and that by believing on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, one has also repented. Repentance is acknowledging one's sinnership in the eyes of a holy God—admitting that I am as dirty and guilty a sinner as God hath declared me to be in His Holy Word.

I don't believe you turn from sins to trust Jesus but rather you turn to Jesus to receive the gift of forgiveness.

One way or another 'Lordship salvation 'creeps in through the back door . ' ' ' ' repentance' is just another way for some to manipulate into adding to the Gospel. The most damaging version being the reformed idea of the ' Gift of repentance ' . As its seen as a Gift from God ( just like the equally false ' Gift of Faith ' for salvation) now the believer has to have his works otherwise he's must not be one of the elect ' . Elect = Repentance = Faith = works . ie Lordship salvation.

 

[atpollard]

Ok you might be missing the point here . Let's try this one . Mathew 10 .
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Is this Jesus speaking to you , or about you , or for you to follow ?

Should these verses have simple been omitted since they are only applicable to the 12 Apostles (and THEY were already saved by the time the words were written down?)

Yes, yes, yes ... a thousand times yes. The Holy Spirit inspired these words to be written down by Matthew because they are VALUABLE to all Christians in all time periods. Types and shadows. Important lessons taught with simple Truths.

• "These twelve Jesus sent forth" ... those serving God are sent by God ... "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." [Ephesians 2:10]
• If we are to serve God, then we must also be sent by God. We are called to do God's work, not to ask God to bless our work.

• "and commanded them" ... God's instructions are not optional suggestions for extra credit
  
• A disciple must follow and obey his Teacher, so whose commands are we following ... that is our Teacher.

• "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ... God has a plan and God controls the who and where and when of His plan.
  
• Chad works for "One Hope". The goal of their international ministry is simple ... to reach every child on Earth with the Gospel message. They are a para-church ministry, so they work behind the scenes with many different local churches (some underground) as well as various missionaries and outreach and even Government agencies. Anyone and anything to advance their goal. They are full of stories of windows of opportunity being opened and closed for their work. Politicians attempt to accomplish some personal goal, and the "unintended consequence" is that a window opens to bring the gospel to children in a closed society. Remember when the President visited North Korea ... God opened a door for South Korean missionaries to contact their underground counterparts in North Korea and the Gospel went out to the Children. These verses teach the typology that this is precisely how God chooses to work. "This far and no further" applies to the Seas, and to Satan, and to Jesus' pre-ressurection ministry, and to Paul entering Asia ... and, apparently, to us as well.

I am honestly at a loss to know how I can make my position on Scripture any clearer. Every singe word is God Breathed and recorded for my benefit.

 

[atpollard]

One way or another 'Lordship salvation 'creeps in through the back door . ' ' ' ' repentance' is just another way for some to manipulate into adding to the Gospel. The most damaging version being the reformed idea of the ' Gift of repentance ' . As its seen as a Gift from God ( just like the equally false ' Gift of Faith ' for salvation) now the believer has to have his works otherwise he's must not be one of the elect ' . Elect = Repentance = Faith = works . ie Lordship salvation.

I have no idea what you mean by "Lordship Salvation" and your post does not really make it clear, but Romans 10 does tell us that Jesus is LORD and SAVIOR of those who are saved:

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. [Rom 10:9-10 NIV]

 

[Barry Johnson]

Should these verses have simple been omitted since they are only applicable to the 12 Apostles (and THEY were already saved by the time the words were written down?)

Yes, yes, yes ... a thousand times yes. The Holy Spirit inspired these words to be written down by Matthew because they are VALUABLE to all Christians in all time periods. Types and shadows. Important lessons taught with simple Truths.

• "These twelve Jesus sent forth" ... those serving God are sent by God ... "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." [Ephesians 2:10]
• If we are to serve God, then we must also be sent by God. We are called to do God's work, not to ask God to bless our work.

• "and commanded them" ... God's instructions are not optional suggestions for extra credit
  
• A disciple must follow and obey his Teacher, so whose commands are we following ... that is our Teacher.

• "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ... God has a plan and God controls the who and where and when of His plan.
  
• Chad works for "One Hope". The goal of their international ministry is simple ... to reach every child on Earth with the Gospel message. They are a para-church ministry, so they work behind the scenes with many different local churches (some underground) as well as various missionaries and outreach and even Government agencies. Anyone and anything to advance their goal. They are full of stories of windows of opportunity being opened and closed for their work. Politicians attempt to accomplish some personal goal, and the "unintended consequence" is that a window opens to bring the gospel to children in a closed society. Remember when the President visited North Korea ... God opened a door for South Korean missionaries to contact their underground counterparts in North Korea and the Gospel went out to the Children. These verses teach the typology that this is precisely how God chooses to work. "This far and no further" applies to the Seas, and to Satan, and to Jesus' pre-ressurection ministry, and to Paul entering Asia ... and, apparently, to us as well.

I am honestly at a loss to know how I can make my position on Scripture any clearer. Every singe word is God Breathed and recorded for my benefit.

Wow . How are you missing my point ? Ok let's see . Yes all scripture is profitable. Yes all scriptures are FOR us . BUT not ALL scriptures are TO us . Again let's try another .
14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
Yes this verse is FOR us but its not To us ..its to Noah . otherwise you need to go build an Ark . Yes there are many things to learn from verses but we don't follow the command to BUILD the Ark.Its the same in the Gospels . Jesus words are all for us , but they are not all to us . Thats why we don't ONLY go to the jews today Because we should recognise who Jesus is speaking to in Mathew 10 .This is how many make such a mess of the Acts of the Apostles .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Should these verses have simple been omitted since they are only applicable to the 12 Apostles (and THEY were already saved by the time the words were written down?)

Yes, yes, yes ... a thousand times yes. The Holy Spirit inspired these words to be written down by Matthew because they are VALUABLE to all Christians in all time periods. Types and shadows. Important lessons taught with simple Truths.

• "These twelve Jesus sent forth" ... those serving God are sent by God ... "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." [Ephesians 2:10]
• If we are to serve God, then we must also be sent by God. We are called to do God's work, not to ask God to bless our work.

• "and commanded them" ... God's instructions are not optional suggestions for extra credit
  
• A disciple must follow and obey his Teacher, so whose commands are we following ... that is our Teacher.

• "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ... God has a plan and God controls the who and where and when of His plan.
  
• Chad works for "One Hope". The goal of their international ministry is simple ... to reach every child on Earth with the Gospel message. They are a para-church ministry, so they work behind the scenes with many different local churches (some underground) as well as various missionaries and outreach and even Government agencies. Anyone and anything to advance their goal. They are full of stories of windows of opportunity being opened and closed for their work. Politicians attempt to accomplish some personal goal, and the "unintended consequence" is that a window opens to bring the gospel to children in a closed society. Remember when the President visited North Korea ... God opened a door for South Korean missionaries to contact their underground counterparts in North Korea and the Gospel went out to the Children. These verses teach the typology that this is precisely how God chooses to work. "This far and no further" applies to the Seas, and to Satan, and to Jesus' pre-ressurection ministry, and to Paul entering Asia ... and, apparently, to us as well.

I am honestly at a loss to know how I can make my position on Scripture any clearer. Every singe word is God Breathed and recorded for my benefit.

No the words should not be omitted. My point is His words need to be understood in context..Jesus first came to the Jews . We learn this in those verses to understand His ministry.