Book of life vs Lambs book of life

[LeBuick]

Also, the people Moses was praying for in Ex. 32:32-33 were not born again. True they were delivered because the had blood on the door post but they were not delivered from sin to salvation which is how you get your name in the Lambs Book of Life. The facts are these were a doomed generation that would mostly die over the next 40 years in the wilderness for their sin's.

Even the next generation was disobedient when they occupied the land of Canaan.

These were not born again believers and that book was not the Lambs Book of Life (a listing of the saints who are eternally saved).

 

[soninme]

Hi , just thought i would throw this in the mix .
The book of life (Re. 20:12; Lk. 10:20).
_______________________________________________________________
rev. 20 : 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

lk . 10: 20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
________________________________________________________________
The book of tears (Ps. 56:8).

ps 56: 8Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
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The book of remembrance (Mal. 3:16).

mal . 3:16
16Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
_________________________________________________________________

The book of births (Ps. 139:16).

ps .139:16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
________________________________________________________________

just a thought ................. did i hear , tongue in cheek

:godisgood:

 

[BobRyan]

Even the next generation was disobedient when they occupied the land of Canaan.

These were not born again believers and that book was not the Lambs Book of Life (a listing of the saints who are eternally saved).

You are mistaken in several areas.

1. Moses, Caleb, Joshua, Aaron, Miriam, The 70 elders who saw God face to face and a host of others - saved -- born again saints in the O.T.

2. Moses is arguing that the names of ALL are written in the lamb's book of life and then blotted out as it is determined that they have refused the Gospel.

God says that it is not up to Moses and the HE ALONE will determine who should be included or blotted out - this has nothing to do with any ledger being kept by man.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Hi , just thought i would throw this in the mix .
The book of life (Re. 20:12; Lk. 10:20).
_______________________________________________________________
rev. 20 : 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

lk . 10: 20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
________________________________________________________________
The book of tears (Ps. 56:8).

ps 56: 8Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
_________________________________________________________________
The book of remembrance (Mal. 3:16).

mal . 3:16
16Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
_________________________________________________________________

The book of births (Ps. 139:16).

ps .139:16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
________________________________________________________________

just a thought ................. did i hear , tongue in cheek

:godisgood:

Ahhh - the inconvenient "details"!

Nice going! The book of rememberance and then also the book of life.

The same book referenced in the gospels in the NT and in the OT.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[LeBuick]

You are mistaken in several areas.

1. Moses, Caleb, Joshua, Aaron, Miriam, The 70 elders who saw God face to face and a host of others - saved -- born again saints in the O.T.

2. Moses is arguing that the names of ALL are written in the lamb's book of life and then blotted out as it is determined that they have refused the Gospel.

God says that it is not up to Moses and the HE ALONE will determine who should be included or blotted out - this has nothing to do with any ledger being kept by man.

in Christ,

Bob

Their sin was making the golden calf = idolatry.

Not sure how you drew your conclusion out of this;

Ex 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

 

[BobRyan]

It appears that Moses is offering to have his name blotted out in exchange for those who stand condemned having their names blotted out. The issue is sin and the consequence of being blotted out of the Lamb's book of life - is the loss eternal life.

It does not mean that they were all saved at that moment - but the judgment process is specific as we see in Dan 7 where "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" but only AFTER the books are opened and the judgment is concluded based on what is written there.

Ex 32
30 On the next day Moses said to the people, "You yourselves have committed a great sin; and now I am going up to the LORD, perhaps I can make atonement for your sin."

31 Then Moses returned to the LORD, and said, "Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves.

32 "But now, if You will, forgive their sin--and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
33 The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

34 "But go now, lead the people where I told you Behold, My angel shall go before you; nevertheless in the day when I punish, I will punish them for their sin."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Are they the same book? You can have your name blotted out of the book of life which would destroy the teaching of eternal security. But seems to me like they are two different books
Help?

GE
They are the same figure of speech - 'metaphor' - for the two aspects of the 'Book of Life', that is Jesus Christ. If you are 'found in the Book of Life', "your life is hid in Christ in God" and you are a saved person ("I have written you in my handpalms"); If you are 'found not written in the Book of Life' you are 'judged according to the books' - or 'record', "what is written in the books" - of the deeds of your own life, and of course you won't be saved person but a damned. (Rv20:12-15)

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR
"It does not mean that they were all saved at that moment - but the judgment process is specific as we see in Dan 7 where "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" but only AFTER the books are opened and the judgment is concluded based on what is written there."

GE
In Dan 7 where "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" and the books are opened and the judgment is concluded based on what is written there, is a prophetic view of, and on, "One The Likeness of the Son of Man", Jesus Christ "being brought before" God the Father an "Offering before the LORD", an Offering being brought of, and in, Victory; Victory on behalf of the saints, through resurrection from the dead.

 

[BobRyan]

Or we could just pay attention to the actual details in the text. -

Daniel shows "continuation" of the timeline "I kept looking".

Dan 7
9 ""I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 ""A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

Here we have a timeline sequence "I kept looking" - in which the judgment scene of heaven is setup after the 4th beast arises - comes to power, divides into 10 and has 3 of the 10 destroyed by "another power" - the 11th.. (So after the fall of the pagan Roman empire and the rise of ANOTHER empire)

We also have a courtroom with the “books opened” a judgment that is corporate, objective, external and based on the contents of the records - the facts recorded in the books. The books are opened and from that comes the judgment. Hence we have an “investigative” judgment of facts recorded in the books.

2Cor 5:10 confirms this judgment of deeds “whether they be good or evil”
2Cor 5
10 For [b]we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ[/b], so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.[/b]

Dan 7
11 ""Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire.
12 ""As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.

13 ""I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him.

…
21 ""I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.


14 ""And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR
Here we have a timeline sequence "I kept looking" - in which the judgment scene of heaven is set up .....

GE
Daniel "Saw the night visions" - That was what he "kept on looking" at. Not to your imaginative 'timeline sequence being 'set up' - which is totally garbled thinking!

And I see in 7:26 and context the judgment taking sitting WHILE, and not 'after' the speaker of great words (25). Your whole 'sequence' is turned upside down with just this single factor!

The OT of which Daniel is part, prophesied of the coming Messiah - of his 'first coming'. You completely loose sight of it, and take another of those long jumps of yours right over the Christ-event, and over virtually the whole of the Promised and Prophesied Kingdom missing out on most of its 'time-sequence' (because its eternal 'stage' is near).

 

[BobRyan]

Rom split up long AFTER the Messiah came -- all Bible scholars easily follow the sequence of 4 world empires into the era of Pagan Rome and the point after it was divided by the germanic tribal invasions.

As I said -- I prefer to follow the details found IN the text.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You don't follow the details; you follow your own conconcted chronology. The 'little horn' grew and was growing at the time the Messiah set up Kingdom; the 'Little Horn' made war against the very first Christians, while it was attached to the head and while uprooting three other horns, and while still part of the beast.

 

[BobRyan]

Rome split up long AFTER the Messiah came -- all Bible scholars easily follow the sequence of 4 world empires into the era of Pagan Rome and the point after it was divided by the germanic tribal invasions.

As I said -- I prefer to follow the details found IN the text.

in Christ,

Bob

So the book of Dan 7 is the same as the book of life seen in Rev 2 and 3.

There are not many books of life -- just one.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

So the book of Dan 7 is the same as the book of life seen in Rev 2 and 3.

There are not many books of life -- just one.

GE

Indeed! Just Jesus Christ!

 

[Rippon]

Hi , just thought i would throw this in the mix .
The book of life (Re. 20:12; Lk. 10:20).
_______________________________________________________________
rev. 20 : 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

lk . 10: 20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
________________________________________________________________
The book of tears (Ps. 56:8).

ps 56: 8Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
_________________________________________________________________
The book of remembrance (Mal. 3:16).

mal . 3:16
16Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
_________________________________________________________________

The book of births (Ps. 139:16).

ps .139:16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
________________________________________________________________

just a thought ................. did i hear , tongue in cheek

:godisgood:

I think these passages are good . In "Why The Blindness" thread Pilgrimer said : "God's elect are not on some roll of names prewritten in heaven." . Well , indeed they are as the above demonstrates .

But I'll add some more . Revelation 20:15 : All whose names were not found written in the book of life were thrown into the lake of fire .

Rev. 21:27 : ... only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life .

Rev. 17:8 : ... The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world ...

Rev. 13:8 : ... all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life ,...

 

[Eliyahu]

What about this verse?

Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


RE 21:27 seems to identify both books the same, though I understand it resolves the problem with Eternal Security if we can distinguish between Book of Life and Lamb's book of Life.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Are they the same book? You can have your name blotted out of the book of life which would destroy the teaching of eternal security. But seems to me like they are two different books
Help?

But is there anything in Scripture where God actually blotted out somebody's name ?

Moses asked that his name be blotted out for Israel's sake, but God said no, didn't He ? His answer was I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and compassion on whom I will have compassion.

I realize somebody may already have pointed this out, and if so, I apologize, I missed this thread from its beginning.