born again, baptistic, leaving evangelical churches?

[nodak]

Increasingly I am running into folks who are born again, who are Baptist in theology, but who will not attend Baptist churches or other "evangelical" or "evangelistic" churches because they find those churches too Pentecostal in theology or in practice.

On the plus side, since most I've talked to are going into mainline churches that might spark much needed revival in those churches.

On the down side, if the trend continues and grows it might be the death of what we think of as Baptist churches. (Of course, those folks believe the death has already occurred.)

I hear Wesleyans, Lutherans, and others complain about the "baptistification" of evangelicalism when it comes to theology. But I hear Baptists complain about the Pentecostization of the Baptist churches.

Are we melting into a sort of muddled mess of theology and practice?

What think ye?

 

[mandym]

Far to many people are trying to predict possible "downfalls" if whatever they do not personally like. It gets a bit silly.

 

[Jim1999]

It depends on where you live. This is not experienced everywhere. In Canada, we have seen an influx of American Baptists and hence doctrinal changes. The historic Baptist churches have remained true to the fundamentals of Baptistic beliefs.

When we make changes to adapt to modern concepts, not theological, we seem to relax our viewpoints and lose our overall witness. I can be a baptist in any denomination,,,,,,if I keep my mouth shut!!!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Salty]

... I can be a baptist in any denomination,,,,,,if I keep my mouth shut!!! Jim

Jim, you know it takes a miracle for us Baptist preachers to keep our mouth shut :smilewinkgrin: :laugh: :saint:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Its a good thing in my view.

Nothing good comes from sectarian seperation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Increasingly I am running into folks who are born again, who are Baptist in theology, but who will not attend Baptist churches or other "evangelical" or "evangelistic" churches because they find those churches too Pentecostal in theology or in practice.

On the plus side, since most I've talked to are going into mainline churches that might spark much needed revival in those churches.

On the down side, if the trend continues and grows it might be the death of what we think of as Baptist churches. (Of course, those folks believe the death has already occurred.)

I hear Wesleyans, Lutherans, and others complain about the "baptistification" of evangelicalism when it comes to theology. But I hear Baptists complain about the Pentecostization of the Baptist churches.

Are we melting into a sort of muddled mess of theology and practice?

What think ye?

I dont think you will see Reformed Baptists mirror imaging Pentacostal churches. What baptist churches specifically are you referring to?

 

[HAMel]

I think a lot of people are leaving old established churches for reason's other than stated.

You know, being a Christian should not be a burden.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1st John

Not "burdensome" at all.

Many churches have a tendency to create burdens and then back it up by preaching the old guilt trip message.

 

[Iconoclast]

The more pentecostal error increases there is a corresponding increase in Confessional baptist churches......people try the error for awhile ,look for gifts, and experiences everywhere....get disappointed...keep studying the bible,,, then get drawn into the confessional churches who are able to help them sort out the error.

 

[HAMel]

The more pentecostal error increases there is a corresponding increase in Confessional baptist churches......people try the error for awhile ,look for gifts, and experiences everywhere....get disappointed...keep studying the bible,,, then get drawn into the confessional churches who are able to help them sort out the error.

You are most correct. These folks are inadvertently piling more burdens upon themselves. They "gotta have" more gifts, more experiences, more emotional highs, more to show their peers..., what a mess.

For sure the Lord is not the author of confusion.

 

[ktn4eg]

Jim, you know it takes a miracle for us Baptist preachers to keep our mouth shut :smilewinkgrin: :laugh: :saint:

Sad, but in most cases it's true.

OTOH, you need to consider the fact that for some of them the reason why they can't shut their mouths is because they've got their foot stuck in it. (Not Salty of course!! :smilewinkgrin

 

[sag38]

I think one has to define what he or she means by Pentecostal error. For some it really does involve speaking in tongues and their belief in God's continuing revelation. But, for others it means that there may be music that's more upbeat and God forbid that someone raise their hand in praise to God. The first I would agree with. The second is not about Pentecostalism but an unhealthy desire to resist anything that doesn't fit into their idea of old fashioned religion.

 

[JesusFan]

The more pentecostal error increases there is a corresponding increase in Confessional baptist churches......people try the error for awhile ,look for gifts, and experiences everywhere....get disappointed...keep studying the bible,,, then get drawn into the confessional churches who are able to help them sort out the error.

You are most correct. These folks are inadvertently piling more burdens upon themselves. They "gotta have" more gifts, more experiences, more emotional highs, more to show their peers..., what a mess.

For sure the Lord is not the author of confusion.

You MUST though be able to see that not all of the Charasmatics/pentacostals are in same "camp"!

Just as there are reformed baptists/Free Will baptists etc

There are those in the Charasmtic group that are evangelical in doctrine, adhere to the essentials of the faith , such as Assemblies of God...

the ones to avoid at all costs are those into modern revelations, WoF. small gods, health and wealth, heritical fringes, NOT main part of it!

DO wish the ones in mainstream would point them out as heretics/false teachers though...

 

[JesusFan]

I think one has to define what he or she means by Pentecostal error. For some it really does involve speaking in tongues and their belief in God's continuing revelation. But, for others it means that there may be music that's more upbeat and God forbid that someone raise their hand in praise to God. The first I would agree with. The second is not about Pentecostalism but an unhealthy desire to resist anything that doesn't fit into their idea of old fashioned religion.

Not ALL in the charasmatic group would see though "additional" revelation from the Gifts, more as inspiring/edification guidance, but NOT adding to the Bible, as that is still seen as being final and ultimate authority still!

Word of faith, wealth/health/ modern day Apostles/prophets are to be seen as being heritical !

 

[HAMel]

JesusFan, yes, many "ism's" to consider. I'm just to the point that when confusion leads to burden..., I'm outta there.

I understand my Lord want me to trust in him 100%, 24 - 7, in all matters. Burdening myself down with nonsense takes away from my trust in Him.

Reminds me of the story of a woman who had lost a daughter as the result of a traffic accident. While flying to visit with her other daughter the plane ran into terrible turbulence and into a tumultuous thunder storm. The plane went nuts trying to keep up.

After they were clear of the storm another passenger commented about this woman having such a calm look on her face through all of this. Her response was, I recently had a child die from a traffic accident and was flying to visit my only other daughter. I was just wondering which daughter I would be seeing first.

Hey, we gotta trust. Anything short of that is work and burden.

 

[drfuss]

Increasingly I am running into folks who are born again, who are Baptist in theology, but who will not attend Baptist churches or other "evangelical" or "evangelistic" churches because they find those churches too Pentecostal in theology or in practice.

On the plus side, since most I've talked to are going into mainline churches that might spark much needed revival in those churches.

On the down side, if the trend continues and grows it might be the death of what we think of as Baptist churches. (Of course, those folks believe the death has already occurred.)

I hear Wesleyans, Lutherans, and others complain about the "baptistification" of evangelicalism when it comes to theology. But I hear Baptists complain about the Pentecostization of the Baptist churches.

Are we melting into a sort of muddled mess of theology and practice?

What think ye?

I suspect that most of those Baptists leaving are really leaving because of the contemporary music and the emotional response in the service, of those who like contemporary music. They are searching for traditioal music which many mainline churches still have. They incorrectly assume that contemporary music and emotional response are only associated with being penetecostal.

Our Baptist church shifted to the loud, harsh, drumbeat contemporary music a few years ago; and many left and went to some mainline churches or in search of a Baptist church which still worships with traditional music. If we were not so involved in the church, we might start looking too.

 

[DHK]

I suspect that most of those Baptists leaving are really leaving because of the contemporary music and the emotional response in the service, of those who like contemporary music. They are searching for traditioal music which many mainline churches still have. They incorrectly assume that contemporary music and emotional response are only associated with being penetecostal.

Our Baptist church shifted to the loud, harsh, drumbeat contemporary music a few years ago; and many left and went to some mainline churches or in search of a Baptist church which still worships with traditional music. If we were not so involved in the church, we might start looking too.

We have gained some members for the same reason; they don't like the contemporary music and we stick to the old traditional hymns.

On the other hand there are many Baptist churches that don't have a good teaching ministry, or to say it another way the preaching is too shallow. Did you know that the greatest percentage of Jehovah Witness's were once Baptists? That is a sad statistic.

We might cry out with Hosea:

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (Hosea 4:6)

 

[JesusFan]

I suspect that most of those Baptists leaving are really leaving because of the contemporary music and the emotional response in the service, of those who like contemporary music. They are searching for traditioal music which many mainline churches still have. They incorrectly assume that contemporary music and emotional response are only associated with being penetecostal.

Think that baptists would be surprised by more "moderate" pentacostal services, as my old Church would have "Gifts exercised" about once a Month!
Could be due to the fcat AG pastor was formally Seminary educated, so quite "baptsit" in his teaching/preaching!

Our Baptist church shifted to the loud, harsh, drumbeat contemporary music a few years ago; and many left and went to some mainline churches or in search of a Baptist church which still worships with traditional music. If we were not so involved in the church, we might start looking too.

Think many here confuse style of worship and teaching with 'pentacostal", while it could just be loud pounding music found in "non" circles just as much!

 

[nodak]

Good food for thought!

Pentecostal style worship can be done with any music.

And there is a huge difference between an emotional response and what I'm hearing as "pentecostal style" worship. Emotional responses can happen with any music.

I think my friends are referring to feeling the emotional response is the goal of the service.

Emotions come and emotions go. God's truth stands forever. It is quite possible to really deeply connect with God without an emotionally intimate moment. Can't say I really feel that when I am under conviction, but if I have sinned conviction is a good thing.

I think they are looking for places that allow or seek the whole range--emotional response included, but also sound teaching, preaching, giving forth the gospel, etc. Not geared to JUST an emotional response.

I know one left when she realized others didn't feel God had been present at all unless they "felt goosebumps" or "cried." She figured God is present wherever two or three gather in His name, whether anyone gets goosebumps or not.

HAMel, your posts sound like you know my friends.