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BORN AGAIN -What does it mean?
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
Did you miss God's Word about the law? Here I will post it again...
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment , it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
God Bless!
Could you post some biblical support for this interpretation? I suspect it is just something Ellen had said
"sensible dietary habits"....either it is a sin or it is not! Nothing to do with "temperance".
But you have already ignored God's Word telling you that NOTHING that goes into the mouth defiles the body. So you continue on in error...
God Bless!
Steve,
I think there is something you dont quite understand about this. When you love God you want to please Him and glorify Him in every way. Love God is the first commandment.
1Cor:10:31: Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
In old testament times, Daniel, God's servant proved that if he ate a vegetarian diet, the original diet of man given by His Creator, who incidently knows better than we do whats best for our bodies...
and Daniel was blessed for doing so. The Bible says he was wiser, healthier and even could interpret visions. His spiritual insight was better than those who ate the typical heathen diet.
Now certainly our bodies have not changed just because we live in New Testament times. The same things that were good for us back then are good for us now.
Daniel 1:
12: Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.
13: Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.
14: So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.
15: And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.
16: Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.
17: As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.
18: Now at the end of the days that the king had said he should bring them in, then the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar.
19: And the king communed with them; and among them all was found none like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: therefore stood they before the king.
20: And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm.
I think there is something you dont quite understand about this. When you love God you want to please Him and glorify Him in every way. Love God is the first commandment.
1Cor:10:31: Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
In old testament times, Daniel, God's servant proved that if he ate a vegetarian diet, the original diet of man given by His Creator, who incidently knows better than we do whats best for our bodies...
and Daniel was blessed for doing so. The Bible says he was wiser, healthier and even could interpret visions. His spiritual insight was better than those who ate the typical heathen diet.
Now certainly our bodies have not changed just because we live in New Testament times. The same things that were good for us back then are good for us now.
Daniel 1:
12: Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.
13: Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.
14: So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.
15: And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.
16: Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.
17: As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.
18: Now at the end of the days that the king had said he should bring them in, then the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar.
19: And the king communed with them; and among them all was found none like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: therefore stood they before the king.
20: And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm.
Mt:5:18 says nothing about keeping the letter of the law. It says just what it says. The law will remain until all is judged. I personally fulfil the royal law which covers any individual law. Have you?
God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus also said this:
Mt:5:19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
tell me, which is the least of the commandments?
Steve,
you are in error if you think the Royal Law negates any of the individual ten commandments...
READ:
James 2:
8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
you are in error if you think the Royal Law negates any of the individual ten commandments...
READ:
James 2:
8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Could you post some biblical support for this interpretation? I suspect it is just something Ellen had said
"sensible dietary habits"....either it is a sin or it is not! Nothing to do with "temperance".
But you have already ignored God's Word telling you that NOTHING that goes into the mouth defiles the body. So you continue on in error...
God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]No Steve, I have in no way ignored God's word, I already said that was misinterpreted by you.
I said that the entire passage is talking about
something other than you think it is..
Here is something for you on temperance, I am not going to waste a whole lot of time explaining it to you since you are so pig-headed..
I Cor 9
24: Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25: And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26: I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
James_Newman
New Member
No, Bob, that certainly isn't the reward for bad works. But nevertheless...
1 Corinthians 3:15
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Works are no test for salvation, rather the works of the saved are going te be tested. Just because your a saved man (if anyone is unsure of their salvation I would be happy to discuss how you can know if you are saved or not) does not mean that you are incapable of sin. So why do we like to write off anyone who is walking in visible sin as unsaved? Or teach that true believers will sometimes sin, but not that bad. Why do we not rather teach the biblical fear of God for believers who will appear before the Lord and may suffer loss at the judgment seat if their works do not pass muster?
All those passages are talking about the kingdom, which is not guaranteed to believers, but is a reward for obedience after being born again.
Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
We have lost the distinction between the free gift of eternal life by faith and the reward of the inheritance of the kingdom by faith and works. And we end up looking to our works for assurance of salvation instead of the finished work of Christ. Then, once we figure we are working hard enough to believe we are probably saved, we rest on our behinds and expect that we will just get all the rewards for free. Backwards, man, backwards.
Those who do not the will of the Father will not enter into the kingdom of heaven, a reward for obedience. But they will be saved, yet so as by fire.
KellyWhite
New Member
Can we simplify this answer without quoting a lot of scripture?
If I am baptized as an infant, is that my second birth?
The first birth being my earthly birth and the seond being the cleansing of original sin?
If I am baptized as an infant, is that my second birth?
The first birth being my earthly birth and the seond being the cleansing of original sin?
A simple answer I can do, yes. I won't quote a lot of scripture but I will leave you with one to ponder.
Romans 6:3-4 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Jarthur001
Active Member
How was Abraham saved? How was he made RIGHTEOUSNESS?
Romans 4
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
***************
There are only 2 systems. One is based on our works, the other is based on Gods grace. In works glory comes to us. In Grace God is given the glory. In works salvation is due us. In grace salvation comes from God, when NOTHING is due but damnation.
Why are we saved?
Romans 5
2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and WE EXULT IN HOPE OF THE GLORY OF GOD.
Do you glory in our works or do you glory in Gods salvation?
In Christ..James
Romans 4
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
***************
There are only 2 systems. One is based on our works, the other is based on Gods grace. In works glory comes to us. In Grace God is given the glory. In works salvation is due us. In grace salvation comes from God, when NOTHING is due but damnation.
Why are we saved?
Romans 5
2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and WE EXULT IN HOPE OF THE GLORY OF GOD.
Do you glory in our works or do you glory in Gods salvation?
In Christ..James
KellyWhite
New Member
A simple answer I can do, yes. I won't quote a lot of scripture but I will leave you with one to ponder.
Romans 6:3-4 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. </font>[/QUOTE]Before I started attending a Baptist church, I was confused by the "born again Christian" phrase. In reality, your second birth (baptism) makes you a Christian. You're only a Christian once.
The fact is that the Bible says clearly that we cannot be saved without works. Jms:2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
the obvious answer is NO
You have no genuine faith if works dont follow and therefore you wont be saved "by faith" since what you have is phony faith. No matter how much you claim you are doing this and that for God's glory, its a phony. If you cared about God's glory, here is what you would do:
Mt:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
James_Newman
New Member
How do you know your faith isn't phony?
Jarthur001
Active Member
The fact is that the Bible says clearly that we cannot be saved without works. Jms:2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
the obvious answer is NO
You have no genuine faith if works dont follow and therefore you wont be saved "by faith" since what you have is phony faith. No matter how much you claim you are doing this and that for God's glory, its a phony. If you cared about God's glory, here is what you would do:
Mt:5:16: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]I have met many people in my 47 years, but I have yet to meet anyone so full of good works that they out shine the blood of Christ. Lets face it Claudia, with your view of faith, it does not matter what God has done, its all about your works!!!
Even if God sent His Son and bleed and died for your sins, salvation is in YOUR hands not God. To you God does not have the power to save...it is YOU with the power.
The fact is Claudia You are YOUR own Christ. Its up to YOU to save yourself. Your WORKS...Christ was wrong when He said it was finished..its not finished till YOU say so. You do the Good Works, salvation is Due you. God should be thankful to YOU...for Claudai is the holy one. Your the ONE that went b the LAW. Your the ONE that did not drink. Your the ONE that always was in chruch. Look at what YOU have done, God owes it to YOU!! You are the one in control, are you not Claudai?
On the other hand...look at old joe. He hardly ever goes to church. One time he lied to you Claudai. Surly joe knows God will not let sinners like him into heaven. Look at that...he only put one dollar in the plate. Thanks God your not like old Joe...the poor sinner. Tee hee...look..joe only has 2 Sabbath day pins. HEY JOE!!! look at all MY Sabbath day pins. I have yet to miss a Sabbath in 4 years. Yes..i think this is a record. Maybe you can be like ME someday Joe. Get out of the way joe...your blocking my glowing shine.
Forget about the Sonship of the family. Born again means..your only in the family till YOU say so..and then YOU can just "work" your way out.
Works points the glory at YOU. Grace is ALL about God.
I am a sinner...only a sinner...saved by grace.
In Christ...James
[ May 02, 2006, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Jarthur001 ]
And yet the Letter of James also refers to Abraham's example, but with the emphasis on his works rather than his faith - James 2:14-26
Re the OP - is the term 'born again' even Biblical? I know it is used by Jesus in Jn 3:3 yet anothen[i/] used here can equally mean 'from above'; it is Nicodemus not Jesus who homes in on the alternative meaning of 'again' but it is quite possible that was as a result of his misunderstanding.
James_Newman
New Member
Abraham's justification by works that James speaks of is not the same thing as the justification by faith that Paul speaks of in Romans. They were two separate events. When Abraham believed God it was accounted as righteousness. Years later, when he went to sacrifice Isaac, God didn't say 'now I know you believe', He said 'now I know that thou fearest me'. And for fearing God and being obedient, he recieved an additional blessing on top of the blessing that he had already recieved by faith.
James is written to those who are already saved by faith, to the end that they might fear God and keep His commandments and recieve the additional blessing.
James is written to those who are already saved by faith, to the end that they might fear God and keep His commandments and recieve the additional blessing.
Hope of Glory
New Member
"Born again" is not used in John 3:3. That verse says, "Born from above". That's when you're born into the family of God.
"Born again" is used in 1 Peter 1:23 (Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.) which is an entirely different concept.
But, misuse of the phrase "born again" has led to much confusion.
"Born again" is used in 1 Peter 1:23 (Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.) which is an entirely different concept.
But, misuse of the phrase "born again" has led to much confusion.
Jarthur001
Active Member
Humm..
well, no matter what the true meaning of the words, it is clear Nicodemus understood it to mean a natural birth. It is also clear that Nic thought Christ was saying it was the 2nd time of the natural birth. If he had thought Christ meant born from above, would he have asked about his mothers womb?