BORN TO BE THE KING.

[Alex2165]

John 18.37
37. Pilate said to Him, 'So You are King?' Jesus answered, 'You say that I am a King. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.'

"For this I have been born," may have a double meaning. As I mentioned in my previous posts, Jesus is the Creation of GOD Father and the very First Creation among all creations of GOD.

Jesus' first birth came from GOD to be the Son of GOD, but it seems His second physical birth destined Jesus to be the King of all Earth. So, in this sense Jesus actually have two births, one is Spiritual as the Angel of GOD, the second is physical as the King of the Earth and the whole physical world (universe).

On one occasion people already tried to make Jesus a King, but they did not know the time and the destiny and the future of Jesus, because of it Jesus escaped from the crowd and hid Himself from them.


John 6.15
15. Jesus therefore perceiving that they were intending to come and take Him by force, to make Him King, withdrew again to the mountain by Himself alone.

People at that time did not perceive that Jesus is not only the King of Israel but of whole humanity, forever. Kings of Earth will remain on their places as usual and even the kings of Israel.


Hosea 3.4-5
4.The Israelites shall remain many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or pillar, without ephod or teraphim (household idols).
5.Afterward the Israelites shall return and seek the Lord their GOD and David their king, they shall come in awe to the Lord and to His goodness in the latter days.

This means that Jesus will be the King of the kings, and above Jesus even higher Authority, His Father the GOD, Creator of everything that exist.

 

[Alan Gross]

"Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth." Psalm 89:27.

I am going to go with the Jews use and meaning of the word. "firstborn", as being synonymous with, "king".

It would read and have the connotation of, "the King of every creature."

As Gill says below; "Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures; being God's firstborn, he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him;

"he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven, the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all, as the following words show; so the Jews make the word "firstborn" to be synonymous with the word "king",

So the verse's meaning would be;
Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures;
being God's firstborn,
he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him;
"he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven,
the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all
and "the King of all Creation."

Other symptoms of, "firstborn", are, first Parent", "first Creator", "the great one", or "a prince."

from: Colossians 1 Gill's Exposition

"the firstborn of every creature"; not the first of the creation, or the first creature God made; for all things in Colossians 1:16 are said to be created by him, and therefore he himself can never be a creature;

"nor is he the first in the new creation, for the apostle in the context is speaking of the old creation, and not the new:

"but the sense either is, that he was begotten of the Father in a manner inconceivable and inexpressible by men, before any creatures were in being;

or that he is the "first Parent", or bringer forth of every creature into being, as the word will bear to be rendered, if instead of we read which is no more than changing the place of the accent, and may be very easily ventured upon, as is done by an ancient writer (g), who observes, that the word is used in this sense by Homer, and is the same as "first Parent", and "first Creator";

"and the rather this may be done, seeing the accents were all added since the apostle's days, and especially seeing it makes his reasoning, in the following verses, appear with much more beauty, strength, and force: he is the first Parent of every creature, "for by him were all things created", &c. Colossians 1:16,

"or it may be understood of Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures; being God's firstborn, he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him;

"he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven, the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all, as the following words show; so the Jews make the word "firstborn" to be synonymous with the word "king", and explain it by , "a great one", and "a prince" (h); see Psalm 89:27.

(f) De Mund. Opific. p. 6. de Plant. Noe, p. 216, 217. de Coufus. Ling. p. 341. de Somniis, p. 600. de Monarch. p. 823. (g) Isidior. Pelusiot. l. 3. Ep. 31. (h) R. Sol. Urbin. Ohel Moed, fol. 50. 1.

"For this I have been born," may have a double meaning. As I mentioned in my previous posts, Jesus is the Creation of GOD Father and the very First Creation among all creations of GOD.

I don't get this. You're saying that there was a time when Jesus didn't exist.

I can't get that out of the Book. Where do you think it is?

Jesus' first birth came from GOD to be the Son of GOD, [/QUOTE]

I don't get this. You're saying that there was a time when Jesus didn't exist.

This means that Jesus will be the King of the kings, and above Jesus even higher Authority, His Father the GOD, Creator of everything that exist.

I don't get this. You're saying that there was a time when Jesus didn't exist.

You're saying God created everything including Jesus?

Then you're saying God the Father has a higher authority than Jesus?

Where are you getting that?

 

[Alex2165]

"Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth." Psalm 89:27.

I am going to go with the Jews use and meaning of the word. "firstborn", as being synonymous with, "king".

It would read and have the connotation of, "the King of every creature."

As Gill says below; "Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures; being God's firstborn, he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him;

"he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven, the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all, as the following words show; so the Jews make the word "firstborn" to be synonymous with the word "king",

So the verse's meaning would be;
Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures;
being God's firstborn,
he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him;
"he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven,
the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all
and "the King of all Creation."

Other symptoms of, "firstborn", are, first Parent", "first Creator", "the great one", or "a prince."

from: Colossians 1 Gill's Exposition

"the firstborn of every creature"; not the first of the creation, or the first creature God made; for all things in Colossians 1:16 are said to be created by him, and therefore he himself can never be a creature;

"nor is he the first in the new creation, for the apostle in the context is speaking of the old creation, and not the new:

"but the sense either is, that he was begotten of the Father in a manner inconceivable and inexpressible by men, before any creatures were in being;

or that he is the "first Parent", or bringer forth of every creature into being, as the word will bear to be rendered, if instead of we read which is no more than changing the place of the accent, and may be very easily ventured upon, as is done by an ancient writer (g), who observes, that the word is used in this sense by Homer, and is the same as "first Parent", and "first Creator";

"and the rather this may be done, seeing the accents were all added since the apostle's days, and especially seeing it makes his reasoning, in the following verses, appear with much more beauty, strength, and force: he is the first Parent of every creature, "for by him were all things created", &c. Colossians 1:16,

"or it may be understood of Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures; being God's firstborn, he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him;

"he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven, the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all, as the following words show; so the Jews make the word "firstborn" to be synonymous with the word "king", and explain it by , "a great one", and "a prince" (h); see Psalm 89:27.

(f) De Mund. Opific. p. 6. de Plant. Noe, p. 216, 217. de Coufus. Ling. p. 341. de Somniis, p. 600. de Monarch. p. 823. (g) Isidior. Pelusiot. l. 3. Ep. 31. (h) R. Sol. Urbin. Ohel Moed, fol. 50. 1.



I don't get this. You're saying that there was a time when Jesus didn't exist.

I can't get that out of the Book. Where do you think it is?

Alan Gross said.

"I don't get this. You're saying that there was a time when Jesus didn't exist.
You're saying God created everything including Jesus?"

If Jesus is the Son of GOD this means He cannot be existed before His Father from Whom He was born (created), just like you who did not exist before your father who gave you birth.

John 1.14
14. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory, Glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Colossians 1.15.17
15. And He (Jesus Christ) is the Image of the invisible GOD, the First-Born of all creation.

1John 5.1, John 18.37
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.


ALFA AND OMEGA - FIRST AND THE LAST.


Revelation 1.8.17, 2.8, 21.6, 22.13
8. "I am the Alpha and the Omega." Says the Lord GOD, Who is and Who was, and Who is to come (Isaiah 41.3-4) (Revelation 1.8, 4.8), the Almighty.
17.When I saw Him I fell at His feet as though dead. But He placed His right hand on me saying, "Do not be afraid, I am the First and the Last,"

The GOD Father is not the first, He is everlasting from everlasting, means He is not first and not the last and He is not Alpha and Omega, because eternity has no beginning and no end, the Father GOD Himself is Eternity.

Eternity is not limited by space and by time, because of it there is no first and no last in Eternity, no beginning and no end.

Jesus on the other hand the Son of GOD Who was born (created) from GOD has its beginning from His GOD Father, the very First and only with comes the Last, because of it He is the First and the Last - Alfa and Omega.

Jesus the Son of everlasting GOD, Himself is Everlasting, but being born (created) from GOD Father, due to His creation (birth) as the First of all creation, directly related to Beginning and the End establishing the time continuum to which all of us are subjects.

Without Jesus were no First and no Last, no time and no space, but only Eternity - GOD.

Alan Gross said.
"Then you're saying God the Father has a higher authority than Jesus?"

Tell me, who is higher in your family, you or your father?

John 14.28
28. You heard that I said to you, 'I go away and I will come to you.' If you love Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father, the Father is greater than I.


Alan Gross said.
"Where are you getting that?"

Did you ever read the Bible?

 

[Alan Gross]

This means that Jesus will be the King of the kings, and above Jesus even higher Authority, His Father the GOD, Creator of everything that exist.

John 14.28
28. You heard that I said to you, 'I go away and I will come to you.' If you love Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father, the Father is greater than I.


Alan Gross said.
"Where are you getting that?"

Did you ever read the Bible?

Have you ever read where the Bible says, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

Jesus is God.

Jesus was not created by God the Father.

God the Father has a higher priority than Jesus and that not due to Jesus being created, because Jesus is Eternally God, co-equal with God the Father, but by Jesus, God the Son, Who is God, assuming the Office of the Son, while remaining equal in Essence to God the Father.


From: Systematic Theology - Augustus Hopkins Strong.pdf - Monergism | https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/strong/Systematic Theology - Augustus Hopkins Strong.pdf

"The subordination of the person of the Son to the person of the Father, or
in other words an order of personality, office, and operation which permits
the Father to be officially first, the Son second, and the Spirit third, is
perfectly consistent with equality.

"Priority is not necessarily superiority.

"The possibility of an order, which yet involves no inequality, may be illustrated
by the relation between man and woman. In office man is first and woman
second, but woman's soul is worth as much as man's; see 1 Cor. 11:3—“the
head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man: and the
head of Christ is God.” On John 14:28—“the Father is greater than I”—see
Westcott, Bib. Com., in loco.
Edwards, Observations on the Trinity (edited by Smyth), 22—

“In the Son the whole deity and glory of the Father is as it were repeated or duplicated.

"Everything in the Father is repeated or expressed again, and that fully, so
that there is properly no inferiority.” Edwards, Essay on the Trinity (edited
by Fisher), 110-116"


From: John 14 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

"for my Father is greater than I": not with respect to the divine nature, which is common to them both, and in which they are both one; and the Son is equal to the Father, having the self-same essence, perfections, and glory: nor with respect to personality, the Son is equally a divine person, as the Father is, though the one is usually called the first, the other the second person;

"yet this priority is not of nature, which is the same in both; nor of time, for the one did not exist before the other;

"nor of causality, for the Father is not the cause of the Son's existence; nor of dignity, for the one has not any excellency which is wanting in the other; but of order and manner of operation:"

John 14:28—“the Father is greater than I, "with regard to his present state, which was a state of humiliation: he was attended with many griefs and sorrows, and exposed to many enemies, and about to undergo an accursed death; whereas his Father was in the most perfect happiness and glory, and so in this sense "greater." That is, more blessed and glorious than he; for this is not a comparison of natures, or of persons, but of states and conditions: now he was going to the Father to partake of the same happiness and glory with him, to be glorified with himself, with the same glory he had with him before the foundation of the world; wherefore on this account, his disciples ought to have rejoiced, and not have mourned."

 

[Alan Gross]

If Jesus is the Son of GOD this means He cannot be existed before His Father from Whom He was born (created), just like you who did not exist before your father who gave you birth.

We're not going to be able to add created or born, or birth, to Jesus' Eternal Preexistence, as if there was ever a time He wasn't fully alive and on the job as God the Son, the second Person in the Divine Godhead.

Nor are we able to attribute to Eternal Deity the same characteristic of a human being's cause and effect, in their natural birth.

John 1.14
14. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory, Glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

This is the humanly incomprehensible Spiritual effusing of the God the Son, from God the Father. Divines speaking of this say Jesus the Son of God, Who is God, is the Son of God the Father, by Eternal Generations.

If there could be an illustration, we could think of the sun's effusion of light. If there is a sun, there is light being generated from it and if there is light, there is a sun it is coming from.

Proverbs 8:30 says, "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;"

Jesus was, "brought up", in the sense of Jesus, as Deity, was nurtured and loved by God the Father, throughout all duration from Eternity Past, as it says, "I was daily His delight".

Right near by John 1:14, in John 1:18, it says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

So, you say, Br. Alan, we still don't know how long Jesus was in the bosom of the Father, or just how long it was that Jesus was 'brought up', or "rejoicing before", God the Father to His , "delight".

Sure we do. Look at Proverbs 8:30, again, toward the end where it says,
"Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;"

Got that, now? See were it says, "always", there?

That is how long Jesus Christ existed, alive and well, Spiritually begotten, from God the Father as His Son, by Eternal Generation.

Always.

Then, as long as you're in John 1, there are always verses 1-3,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

2 "The same was in the beginning with God.

3 "All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Colossians 1.15.17
15. And He (Jesus Christ) is the Image of the invisible GOD, the First-Born of all creation.

Post #2 on this thread covered that. BORN TO BE THE KING.

Jesus in so many words is the "first Creator" "of all creation".

The "King" of all creation, by Eternal Generation.

1John 5.1, John 18.37
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.

This was just an oversight. Hopefully, you didn't get it out of a book on doctrine!

I believe we could benefit from a hyphen in there, just to be sure it's clear, like right here: that Jesus is the Christ, has been born of GOD,

Then, it would have been easier to catch the sense of it saying, in effect;
Everyone who is born of God, believes that Jesus is the Christ.

Dunno, how long you've been on the BB, but that one officially causes you to have passed your initiation. That was just a simple mistake, but believe me, I see worse every day, for things trying to be passed off as substantiation, to 'make a point'!

John 18:37 "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

To this end was He Incarnated, by the virgin birth.

 

[Alex2165]

You are twisting the passages and their meaning with your own philosophy, or your religious denomination, or both.

I respect your opinions whatever they may be, but I prefer to stay with my position on these issues.

Goodby.

 

[Alan Gross]

You are twisting the passages and their meaning with your own philosophy, or your religious denomination, or both.

That would be called, "Christianity".

I respect your opinions whatever they may be, but I prefer to stay with my position on these issues.

That would be called that of a, "Cult".

Every realm of Christianity defines the position that, "Jesus was created", as being the belief of a Cult and, therefore, non-Christian.

In the information section of your profile, it says,

"Faith: Seeking Christ".

Whatever that means, it sounds like a good idea.

Although, I don't know where you really stand before the Lord in salvation, I do always make it a point with people who actually profess to be in a Cult, where they believe Jesus was created, this verse;

Have you ever read where the Bible says, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins."

Jesus is God.

Jesus was not created by God the Father.

God the Father has a higher priority than Jesus and that not due to Jesus being created, because Jesus is Eternally God, co-equal with God the Father, but by Jesus, God the Son, Who is God, assuming the Office of the Son, while remaining equal in Essence to God the Father.


From: Systematic Theology - Augustus Hopkins Strong.pdf - Monergism | https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/strong/Systematic Theology - Augustus Hopkins Strong.pdf

"The subordination of the person of the Son to the person of the Father, or
in other words an order of personality, office, and operation which permits
the Father to be officially first, the Son second, and the Spirit third, is
perfectly consistent with equality.

"Priority is not necessarily superiority.

 

[tyndale1946]

That would be called, "Christianity".

That would be called that of a, "Cult".

Every realm of Christianity defines the position that, "Jesus was created", as being the belief of a Cult and, therefore, non-Christian.

In the information section of your profile, it says,

"Faith: Seeking Christ".

Whatever that means, it sounds like a good idea.

Although, I don't know where you really stand before the Lord in salvation, I do always make it a point with people who actually profess to be in a Cult, where they believe Jesus was created, this verse;

Hebrews 10: 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

IOW... The Son of God is eternal and was given a body... Brother Glen