KenH
Well-Known Member
Then you are naive when it comes to the world of politics.
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- Thread starter Revmitchell
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Then you are naive when it comes to the world of politics.
No, I just don't separate politics from morality and I stick with the macro and don't get caught up in the micro.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Maybe you will come to understand Reagan's words one day.
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald Reagan
The way some practice it, yes. The democrats, Romney's and McCain's come to mind. Compromisers in general. Power hungry individuals. It's a swamp.
There are also good people in politics.
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KenH
Well-Known Member
Hate to burst your bubble, but the Republicans are not any more pure as the wind-driven snow than the Democrats, not even your political hero - Donald John Trump. Give it time. You'll learn better...I hope.
I just named two Republicans. The Bush admin was a disaster. Look at the Bolton-types.
But to generalize and say there's no difference between the parties is just as bad. You become the swamp when you say stuff like this. You're no better than those you're accusing.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Don't be so defensive about your naiveté. To quote your political hero's wife - "Be best."
Nothing to be defensive about. Just pointing out an error in logic, generally used to give people excuses to support just about anything and any party. It's a copout. People use this sophistry to justify turning their backs on the innocent (the unborn in particular).
KenH
Well-Known Member
Nonsense. You are just arguing from an emotional position, trying to justify your involvement in politics as some kind of noble venture. Nothing noble about the dirty, filthy world of politics. It's basically mud wrasslin'. It's okay to be involved, but you would do well to do so with your eyes wide open and not as an inexperienced newbie.
And bingo. You prove my point.
I'm not going to fight to stop the murder of millions of babies. I might get dirty!
This is the insane logic that would have sat out of the abolitionist movement as well. It's the epitome of selfishness. It's false logic and bad theology.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Bingo! There it is! You think that the only way to fight is with the world's weapons instead of the gospel. So unless someone does it your way, you falsely accuse them of not fighting for unborn children. Also, I hope that you are not merely one of those "pro-birth" people that are only concerned about a baby until it is born and then are not pro-life for the whole life.
2 Corinthians 10:3–4 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. (ESV)
Governing officials are from God. They are not worldly weapons. Romans 13.
This is the bad theology I was referring to. Ultimately, your error is theological.
In fact, by ignoring the system God has put in place and advocating for extreme eastern pacifism, it's actually you that is using worldly weapons (completely useless weapons).
Christians throughout history have always understood this. Those in your camp are outliers, and I hope it stays that way.
KenH
Well-Known Member
God has permitted human governments, even though every human government is established in rebellion against God, just as God permitted divorce among the Israelites in the Old Testament due to the hardness of their hearts, just as God permitted the Israelites to have a king even though they were rejecting God.
KenH
Well-Known Member
I have never advocated for "extreme eastern pacifism" and you know it. Come on, man! You are supposed to know better than to do that.
KenH
Well-Known Member
None of us have perfect theology, including you. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are doing so based on theological error. I hope you are not one of those people who think they know it all.
Of course you are. You're saying we should use dirty government to help anyone. It's a form of pacifism.
Again, this is the bad theology. You're mixing OT laws on divorce to NT moral commandments about submitting to government. You're comparing moral law to national law.
God is not permitting us to give to Caesar what is Caesar because of hardness of heart. You've completely missed the point.
You're right. Your errors have nothing to do with me. I'm showing you your theological errors. I don't know it all, but I do know about the errors you're advocating.
KenH
Well-Known Member
No, I am not . Please stop bearing false witness.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Evidently, you do not. You are blind to your own errors to wanting to ignore using the gospel to change men’s hearts and instead erroneously believe that you can successfully use the force of government to do it.
Just wondering, do you also want to use the force of government to try to stop fornication or do you want to use the gospel? Based on what you have been writing, you will probably accuse me of not wanting people to not fornicate if I don’t want to use government force to stop it.