Bush Admits Secret Prisons

For those who need a course in the constitution, having secret prisons is not a violation, I don't believe. Furthermore, Galatian's example from Guantanamo Bay is self-defeating for him since it showed that they were not being held without cause. They were captured on a battlefield, and held until a tribunal freed them.

Furthermore, those who are not American citizens have no constitutional rights, especially when they are enemies of this country.

 

Is this refering to the terrorist captured in battle who are at guantonimo and othe places?

 

Our Constitution is a framework, a guideline, an ideal, that sets us apart from other nations.

Just like our Bible.

We don't treat non-Christians differently than we treat our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

We shouldn't treat non-Americans differently than we treat our fellow Americans.

I don't have the words or the intelligence, to convey what I'm trying to say. All I ask is that you step back for a moment and ask the question, "Is this how I want people to remember America fifty years from now?"

 

Larry, you are dead wrong on this. Anyone within the jurisdiction of the US has Constituional rights. If they are convicted of crimes against this country, then yes, we can restrict those rights through due process.

 

Actually, i am correct. There is a reason why people living in other countries follow their own constitutions. they are not covered by ours. This is so elementary it's unbelievable. Those captured on a battlefield as citizens and combatants of a foreign country do not have constitutional rights under our constitution.

I should have said 'citizens and legal residents." There are legal residents of the US who also have constitutional rights. The point is that they don't apply to people living in other countries under other jurisdictions.

this is perhaps part of the problem. too many people confuse the constitution with the Bible. They insist on tighter adherence to the constitution than they do to the Bible.

Actually we do. Non-Christians do not participate in the fellowship and worship of the church. They are not candidates for marriage for a person who is a Christian. There are numerous differences. That doesn't mean that we treat them bad, but we certainly treat them differently. Again, this is a major problem in the modern church ... We can't tell any difference between the believers and the unbelievers, and it is not beause the unbeleivers are acting like believers.

You whole illustration was flawed, but yes, we do treat non-Americans differently. There is nothing wrong with that. AGain, it doesn't mean we treat them badly, but we can certainly treat them differently, especially when they are sworn enemies of this country.

What do you mean? I don't want America to be remembered in 50 years as people who didn't understand the Constitution and were more concerned with the "rights" of enemies than the protection of our state. I don't want America to be remembered by the nonsense that flows from liberalism today. It is hard for a sane person to listen to some of this nonsense. It is so laughable on its face, you wonder if even the liberals take it seriously. I would imagine that many don't, but then you see people in here arguing for the most absurd things. At least it provides a laugh during the day.

 

Please quote the part of the Constitution that provides this right to non-American citizens.

 

Well said!:thumbs:

 

Our laws and courts and Constitution do not apply to foreign individuals held in foreign lands.

They would, if anything, be subject to the laws and courts and constitutions of the countries in which they are imprisoned.

 

The application is not, as you probably know, expressly prohibited nor denied in the text of the Constitution itself. It is Congressional action and case law that have clarified that non-citizens indeed have Constitutional rights, such as speedy trials, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from unreasonable search & seizure, etc. etc. Of course, some rights are restricted for non-citizens, such as voting.

From the First Amendment Center online at:
http://www.fac.org/analysis.aspx?id=16752&printer-friendly=y

 

Where do you get your info in those held in secret prisons kidnaped?

Or is this characterization a political smear?

 

:thumbs: Bingo.

And as far as America 50 years from now, I don't believe America will be around 50 years from now being as too many people who want to destroy us have nukes or can get their hands on them. At any rate, most of us posting on this board won't be around 50 years from now anyway. So who cares....:sleep:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by carpro
Our laws and courts and Constitution do not apply to foreign individuals held in foreign lands.

They would, if anything, be subject to the laws and courts and constitutions of the countries in which they are imprisoned.

Do you have knowledge of such kidnapping or are you just what iffin'?

Could be the ones operating and running those prisons are locals and if not, are breaking no local laws.

 

Glad I could at least amuse you.

As I said, I'm not intelligent enough to convey what I'm trying to say; but I think you changed the context of the discussion when you said "I should have said 'citizens and legal residents.'"

And I don't want stricter adherence to the Constitution than to the Bible; I want the same standard. That was a poor assumption on your part, especially since you don't know diddly about me except what you've read on these few posts.

It's a fine line we're walking, folks. Just be sure we understand all the risks. We've already crossed the line with wire-tapping and other procedures. How much more before we say, "wait, that's too much"?

 

A careful reading of what I wrote makes clear that I said no such thing. It didn't even have to be that careful.

Why are you making things up?

 

I'm curious. Is foreign land used for US military bases considered US land? What laws govern soldiers and activities on those bases? US consulates on foreign soil are US land but I'm wondering about military installations. US secret prisons should probably be equivalent to military bases in this regard.