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Bush lifts wage rules for Katrina
- Thread starter poncho
- Start date
Running the math, $20 an hour is almost $42000 a year, if you get no overtime at all. That is well above any poverty line. It seems to me that if it is costing one more to go to work than to stay home, perhaps some living expenses need to be cut. We all have to live within our means. We are not entitled to live at the same level that others live at. Standard of living is not a guarantee in life.
However, it is impossible to define a living wage nationally. What it costs to live in NYC is a far cry from what it costs to live in rural Alabama for instance. This is why the market should define the wage, nothing else. If you don't like what you are getting paid, then don't work for it. Hope that your employer can't find anyone else to do it and then he will be forced to hire you at the wage you want. That is the way the market works.
People often forget that high wages aren't free. They cost the consumer. When an employer is forced to pay $20/hour, he has to cover that in revenues. Which means you pay more to get his services. And then you complain about high prices, forgetting that your high wage demands are the cause.
Demanding a high wage, or a "living wage" (whatever that means) is fine. It is certainly your right. But it should be the employer's right not to pay it, if he doens't want to.
Not sure that they can, but why should they? What part of the constitution gives the federal government the right to be involved in setting wages?
KenH
Well-Known Member
Most of what the federal government does cannot be found, per se, in the U.S. Constitution. But they do it anyway. Therefore, I no longer find that to be a compelling argument. We have to deal with the real world, not some romantic idea of how we wish it would be.
If Hurricane Katrina taught us anything, it should have taught us that we are all in this together. We simply should not ignore, collectively, what happens to other people in this country because sooner or later it will get around to affecting all of us.
If Hurricane Katrina taught us anything, it should have taught us that we are all in this together. We simply should not ignore, collectively, what happens to other people in this country because sooner or later it will get around to affecting all of us.
You can live on 42000 in NYC. You have to live at a lower standard of living ... which is what I said.
Which is exactly why wage controls are bad ideas. We have to live in the real world.
I don't think anyone is suggesting we ignore anything ... at least not that I have seen.
poncho
Well-Known Member
Running the math, $20 an hour is almost $42000 a year, if you get no overtime at all. That is well above any poverty line. It seems to me that if it is costing one more to go to work than to stay home, perhaps some living expenses need to be cut. We all have to live within our means. We are not entitled to live at the same level that others live at. Standard of living is not a guarantee in life.[QB]</font>[/QUOTE]You're figuring on a 12 month year. The average I've had is about 8 months of work a year due to lack of work and bad weather over 15 years.
$25,000 yearly is a more reasonable amount to be expected. Construction is up and down. I've seen a time or two when I had to take a 6 dollar hr job to get gas money to go back to work.
When we start talking expenses, on top of just taxes there are living expenses to be paid at home and on the road. Fuel is a biggie. If you work five minutes from home it isn't but when you drive a truck across the state, that can add up to 200 bucks or more, if you stay in the motel and eat tv dinners and free doughnuts and watch the weather all the time you aren't at work you can save some money. Go out to the resturant, for dinner and buy food from the coffee wagon for lunch figure on spending 100 a week. Wear and tear on my tools and truck can be up to 20 week (buy any good drill bits or saw blades lately(?), mileage figure at about 15 cents a mile. 200 miles is 30 dollars a week. That's just the things you plan on going wrong. Lose a transmission or get you're tools boosted plan on a couple thousand to replace them. Buy health insurance that's another expense that can up the expense each week another 30 or so dollars.
That's $350/400 a week in expenses without partying and spending money extravagantly on top of taxes $150. 500 or more dollars can disappear from your weekly pay rather easily. 300 a week take home pay and $300 unemployment adds up to $15,600 yearly take home for one person per year. That's an average year based on my numbers. Some are better, some are worse.
Or become the employer. Then handle all the paper work expected of you from the state or federal government. They track every penny of you're payroll and keep you current on wage raises on prevailing wage jobs.
Not this person. Watch what happens to people on a fixed income when the minimum wage is raised. Their income stays the same and prices go up making their money worth less they feel the pinch first, the rest of us that have a chance of increasing our income at least we can try to work longer hrs for the same money put the spouse to work charge the kids rent take a second job etc.
I beleive that is due to inflation and inflation is caused mostly by the way the multinational bankers can create wealth by printing paper money not backed by any real wealth and loaning practically nothing out and getting returns of 110% on nothing more than what it costs to print and ship cash or program numbers into an account.
I'll gladley go through my limited understanding of factional reserve banking if you feel it's warranted.
That's correct Pastor Larry but when employers are left to set the wages they have proven throughout history to pay "just enough to keep you from quiting" and if the employer is big and powerful and has political connections, rather than paying a living wage in return for trying to organize you could be locked out or shot.
With all the cheap labor being imported and the work being outsourced I reckon we can all figure on our wages going down and profits of the big powerful and well connected employers to go up. Until they figure out no one is making enough money to buy their products.
poncho
Well-Known Member
Lifting the federal prevailing wage could do away with alot of paperwork designed to track payroll moneys and who they are going too. So, if the paperwork is not required, they could hire some illegals but more than that the potential for large scale corruption would be there as well.
rivers1222
Member
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Incorrect carpro. You have every right to talk about wages of any trade. I pointed out my opinion that the people who cry most over what is percieved to be a high hourly wage in construction usually dont have a clue as to what the job entails or the expenses, lost time, etc.
Back on topic. I do believe that this is the wrong time to override the DB act. Hopefully most of the labor spent to rebuild will be local. We are going to throw billions at this rebuilding fiasco, and the first place we try to cut corners and save a buck is in local labor. Ironic huh?
Yes, and we never have that under the current federal law.
poncho
Well-Known Member
I take it you've never filled out the umpteen forms mandated by the state or feds that employers have to file everyday on each employee's man hours and payroll the employee has to read and sign it. Yet coruption does exist,but with a legal recourse that the person getting ripped off can pursue. It's slow sure, but it works.
This is at least an attempt to keep track of taxpayers money and keep honest contractors honest. Without them, hey...fagitabotit! Tom doesn't need 30 dollars an hour as much as I need a new truck so I'll give him 10 bucks pocket 20 and there ain't no legal recourse he can take to get it back. Hey Tom...how do like my new Dodge Ram ain't she shiney?
This is at least an attempt to keep track of taxpayers money and keep honest contractors honest. Without them, hey...fagitabotit! Tom doesn't need 30 dollars an hour as much as I need a new truck so I'll give him 10 bucks pocket 20 and there ain't no legal recourse he can take to get it back. Hey Tom...how do like my new Dodge Ram ain't she shiney?
Corruption in federal government is wide spread. Filling out a few forms, or a lot of forms, won't change that.
guitarpreacher
New Member
fwiw - Prevailing wage is adjusted based on the location of the job. You can't compare wages in NYC to wages in Louisiana. And not drawing prevailing wage doens't mean you're making poverty wages. A journeyman electrician here in Arkansas will make somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 - $18 dollars an hour. On a federal prevailing wage job he will probably make about $3-4 and hour more.
What's great about this is that the federal gov. steps in and tells local contractors what they have to pay their help (btw, all this is about is labor unions forcing the government to help them be competitive. Don't think for a minute that your congressman cares whether you make $15 as opposed to $19) The government doesn't play by thier own rules. We have a VA hospital here in LR that employs electrician, and they make less than what the average non union electrician in town makes.
What's great about this is that the federal gov. steps in and tells local contractors what they have to pay their help (btw, all this is about is labor unions forcing the government to help them be competitive. Don't think for a minute that your congressman cares whether you make $15 as opposed to $19) The government doesn't play by thier own rules. We have a VA hospital here in LR that employs electrician, and they make less than what the average non union electrician in town makes.