Bush Twins doing America proud!

[Scott J]

Originally posted by RockRambler:
I really can't find anything in the link provided on the column about the Open Letter to the Bush Twins, anything about spending OPM funding social programs. I don't see what ScottJ's commment has to do with the subject.

It is a direct parallel.

The columnist apparently thinks that conservatives should fight wars promoted by conservatives.

I think liberals should pay for social programs promoted by liberals...

 

[OCC]

Scott...I aint ever met a conservative who cared to help me when I needed it. Everything I have (and it ain't a lot as I've used up money helping others) I earned on my own.

Conservatives may not believe that people have a right to the earnings of other people but they have a way of keeping the little guy down. Isn't it true that many small businesses and even family farms are going the way of the dodo bird due to conservatism?

 

[OCC]

"The columnist apparently thinks that conservatives should fight wars promoted by conservatives.

I think liberals should pay for social programs promoted by liberals..."

They do. And liberals fight wars promoted by conservatives (the military does have liberals) and conservatives pay for social programs promoted by liberals.

 

[RockRambler]

ScottJ, if you read other columns by the author I think you would find he would be in agreement with you on social programs. Thinking that the Bush family could provide inspiration by having family members join the military is not an exclusively liberal idea. Some of us with sons already in Iraq wonder what has taken them so long.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by King James:
Scott...I aint ever met a conservative who cared to help me when I needed it.

That's a true shame. In the US, conservatives are statistically much more likely to give to charity than liberals.

Everything I have (and it ain't a lot as I've used up money helping others) I earned on my own.

That is as it should be unless you were in need.

Christians, not government, should help Christians in need. That's the NT model.

Conservatives may not believe that people have a right to the earnings of other people but they have a way of keeping the little guy down.

I disagree. Conservatives promote freedom of opportunity.

For every person in the US that excuses their lack of accomplishment for a lack of "help" there is an immigrant from Latin America, Asia, Africa, eastern Europe, etc. who has come to the US with absolutely nothing and become successful.

We real Americans are just too spoiled to live with the hardship and make the sacrifices.

I knew of a Chinese family who ran a restaurant in NC. They lived in a very small shack out back.

Americans, and I suppose westerners in general, have the idea that we have a right to a certain standard of living... at the expense of others if necessary. Immigrants from poorer nations do not labor under these misconceptions an see nothing but opportunity.

Isn't it true that many small businesses and even family farms are going the way of the dodo bird due to conservatism?

No. Not at all. In fact, I would argue that it is the net effect of liberalism that weighs these businesses down.

Small businessmen in America overwhelmingly support Republicans while the "rich" and corporate heads split just about even. They recognize that Republican and in particular conservative policies are more beneficial to them.

They also realize that liberals have contempt for them. They are "the rich" that Bush gave a tax cut to. They are the constant targets of liberal regulation.

The accounting costs to a sheetrock contractor I know is $5000+... just to make sure that he pays his income taxes correctly. He would certainly be better off... and so would his employees if the size, scope, and cost of government decreased.

 

[KenH]

I thought lots of folks on this board were opposed to women serving in combat and basically all of Iraq is a combat zone.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Scott J:
[ In fact, I would argue that it is the net effect of liberalism that weighs these businesses down.

You've got that right, brother.

 

[RockRambler]

I wish the Church and families and friends would help the needy but that doesn't seem to happen the way I believe it used to. My church had no problem asking us for loans to renovate the building...

I heard Dr. Allen Lane on "American's Religious Town Hall" last Sunday, (July 10) state that last year Southern Baptists spent more money on interest for buildings than on feeding the hungry and missionary work.

That may well be the biggest part of our problems.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by RockRambler:

last year Southern Baptists spent more money on interest for buildings than on feeding the hungry and missionary work.

That may well be the biggest part of our problems.

Excellent point.

 

[OCC]

Hey Scott, thanks for your post. Learned some things from it.

People do expect to have a higher standard of living these days, that is true. It is said that everyone wants right away, what it took their parents 20 years to get.

As for the immigrants making their own way...I am sure they are able to do it...but only after they are finally allowed in the country. And I thought they did get help from the government? If they didn't, why are many people so against immigration?

 

[OCC]

Yes, good points you guys.

 

[KenH]

Illegal immigrants lower wages, increase unemployment for citizens, and have broken the law in entering our country illegally.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by RockRambler:
ScottJ, if you read other columns by the author I think you would find he would be in agreement with you on social programs. Thinking that the Bush family could provide inspiration by having family members join the military is not an exclusively liberal idea. Some of us with sons already in Iraq wonder what has taken them so long.

Was the same objection given when Clinton sent troops into the Balkans or ordered the ill-fated mission in Somalia?

Sorry if I don't share the apparent resentment that the Bush twins aren't patroling the streets of Fallujah with an M-60.

 

[KenH]

Yeah, I didn't see folks asking when Chelsea was going to sign up to go to Bosnia.

 

[RockRambler]

Just think if every Christian gave 10% to their local church, and the local churches spent it on social programs instead of buildings...how much lower the tax rate would be when the government provided for only those services specified in the Constitution.

And how wonderful it would be when people needed help they looked to the local churches instead of looking for a government handout.

I know, I know....if "Ifs and buts were candy and nuts, then every day would be Christmas".

 

[OCC]

Illegal immigrants was not what I was talking about though. I was talking about immigrants specifically...legal ones. Many people STILL have a problem with them.

 

[OCC]

Originally posted by KenH:
Yeah, I didn't see folks asking when Chelsea was going to sign up to go to Bosnia.

I wasn't on this board at the time.

 

[RockRambler]

Was the same objection given when Clinton sent troops into the Balkans or ordered the ill-fated mission in Somalia?

Yes...some of us had the same objections then...we were just known as conservative isolationists then, while now we're called liberal isolationists.

I have two sons in the USMC...both joined after 9/11. Both have been in Iraq, one is returning this week, the other is going back for the second time in September.

When the Bush twins respond to their father's call for young people to serve in the war on terroism like my sons have....then I'll be more impressed with President Bush.

Until then, I think of him like I do about other chickenhawks who seem to love war, but only if the poorer folks fight it.

 

[Scott J]

I disagree with the first two of Ken's points but agree with the last one.

The reason I disagree with the first two is that immigrants and especially "illegals" from Mexico typically perform jobs that "Americans" turn their nose up at.

I have personal experience with Mexicans working on a green card in mfg. For that lower wage, they would work harder and longer than people we got from the city of Atlanta as temps.

I learned to have tremendous respect for them.

They were family oriented. They took care of each other and their families.

They were self-sacrificing. One young girl who was officially 18 but didn't look more than 15 was working so that her mother in Peru could have stomach surgery. Many if not most sent most of their check back home.

They were goal oriented. Most were saving money so that they could go back home and buy a house/start a business.

They worked. They didn't stand around and complain about not making enough or having to work too hard.

They were self-policing. If someone complained or didn't work hard enough, the others wouldn't let the temp agency send them back.

Another interesting thing was that only one said that they were interested in staying in the US. The rest planned to go home as soon as they could.

To be honest, if the roles were reversed and my family was impoverished... and I could feed them by crossing a line on a map... I am not sure how meaningful laws against it would be.

 

[OCC]

Very good points.