Bush vetoes stem cell bill as promised

Quote:
Whereas, he vetoed a bill funding scientific research which could save the lives, and ease the sufferings of hundreds of thousands of victims of such diseases as Multiple Sclerosis, Alzheimers, Parkinson's Disease, spinal cord injuries, and many, many other afflictions of humankind,

Including diabetes and strokes, and my primary concern...alzheimers....I am a prime candidate for this devastating affliction, and I have been through it twice with parents....No thank you.

Cheers,

Jim

 

What he said. :thumbsup:

 

If the procedure can't be accomplished without creating extra babies, then just don't do the procedure.

 

response from:

Excellent reply Bro Tony! I guess by some people's thinking an older child is also more important than a younger child? After all they have more intelligence and capable of cleaning after themselves! Unless they are handicapped in which case they are less important?

I hope these people who are fighting so hard for such research, are also fighting as hard against abortion! Otherwise looking to possibly help or save others with such, whilst ignoring the soon to die unborn, would be the highest and most despicable hypocrisy!


Then again, maybe some feel they should also have rights to the aborted, or soon to be. I mean after all they are just worthless and will be thrown away anyhow, right! God help us indeed!!! Also, isn't the question really "When do we value life" and not "When does life begin"? I say life begins when we conceive, otherwise you did not actually conceive. The Bible says 1Tim. 6:9 "..I urge you in the sight of god who gives life to all things,....."

This is what I understand and as "genesis12" also stated. Yes the President did the right thing. There is plenty of knowledge and many other avenues available versus an avenue of playing god. Where would it end?

 

3-page warning: This thread will be closed no sooner than 4:30 a.m. ET by one of the moderators.

Lady Eagle,
Moderator

 

Situational Ethics

==If you oppose the death penalty, you are going to have problems with Scripture. Romans 13:1-5, Genesis 9:6, Lev 20:9-10. Point? In the Levitical Law for Israel God commanded the death penalty, after the flood (before the Law) God commanded the death penalty, and in the New Testament God has given the government (as a minister of wrath) the sword. There are many, many other Scriptures that can make these same points.

==Illegal? According to whom?

I don't support the Bush administration's policy in Iraq but calling the war "illegal" seems factually highly problematic. Illegal according to whom? Saying the war in Iraq was "unprovoked" ignores the history of US/Iraq relations (mainly since '91).

==The ends don't justify the means. That is situational ethics at its worst.

The Word of God is very clear that it is God who creates life in the womb...

"For YOU formed my inward parts;
you wove me in my mother's womb." Psalm 139:13

I once had a pro-abortion person scream at me while I read this verse to them. Why? Because it's implication for all abortion is very clear and serious. Abortion, in any and all forms, is murder. It is a violation of God's command to protect the innocent (Ex 23:7) and the weak (Ps 82:4). The Bible is clear that ALL murderers shall be cast into the lake of fire forever...

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimestone, which is the second death" Revelation 21:8

The Bible is clear that no murderer has eternal life...

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" 1John 3:15

What a tragedy.

So what is the call for those who are guilty of murder in the form of abortion? They, like all people, need to repent of their sin and turn to Christ as Lord in faith. He promises to forgive those who come to Him in faith.

There is no justification for infant stem cell research. This is true regardless of any considerations but it is certainly true when one considers the fact that there are other options. The verses mentioned above should make it clear that this is a very serious issue. We dare not cast aside the very real moral concerns simply because we support "scientific advancement".

==Considering the fact that Bush is a politician that comes as no surprise.

==That is a unBiblical statement.

What does Scripture say?

"Do not rejoice when your enemy falls,
And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles;
Or the Lord will see it and be displeased,
And turn His anger away from him" -Psalm 24:17-18

What did Jesus say?

"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?" -Matthew 5:44-45

What did Paul say?

"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone...Never take your own revenge...Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." -Romans 13:17,19,21

==So in your book standing up for innocent life is being a "religious fanatic"? Well I am happy to be a fanatic then.

What does the Word of God say?

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness" -Isaiah 5:20, Prov 17:15

Your so called "scientific advancement" is immoral. There is no way to justify willfully killing innocent human life in any form. I am all for scientific advancement as long as it is in line with God's Word. The ends don't justify the means. We must consider the moral implications of the whole process.

I really hate to come down so hard but I am tired of excuses, mainly when those excuses come from Christians. We should be standing up for innocent life.

2Chron 7:14, 1Peter 4:17

 

You think it is ok to murder children.
thats sick
I happen to have one of those diseases, and believe me, as a christian, I do not want a cure at the cost of one childs life. No God fearing person would think of sacrificing children for a cure for any disease. How can killing children be in God's will?

 

God did not create 'masses of undeveloped cells' He created human beings. From conception to death they are human beings, as God created them.
And does it really matter which, human cells are human cells and they are humans, it does not matter if they do not have consciousness yet or not.

This argument never ceases to sicken me, denying God's creation.

 

Prove it. There is no scripture or science stating such a fact.

 

Daisy brings up an interesting point that was discussed by Al Mohler earlier this week: Link

Joseph Botwinick

 

Either implant them and leave it in God's hands, or don't do it at all.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Any thing procreated by humans that will become a human is a human. They are just a mass of cells. A mass of human cells developing into a more mature human. A 6 month old baby is a mass of cells. He/she can not take care of himself he can not talk or walk but he/she is a human. The only difference between what you call a mass of cells and a 6 month old baby is time and cuteness.

I would rather see millions of people die from normal life ending deaths then see there life prolonged by murdering one inocent human baby. To be more personal, I would rather see my two kids die by what ever illness they have then to see their lifes prolonged by the murder of another baby.

 

If you don't beleive God created man as he is, then thats your problem and I don't have to prove what scriapture says. God created, it doesn't say anything about no lump of cells that aren't human. Prove He created your way then.

 

We certainly do not need to get into the business of human comodities.

Hitler had the Jews delcared by law not human

America had African slaves declared legally not human

Now America once again has declared the unborn human children not human.

And while our President has vetoed this, it is still available and lawful to do it in the private sector.

If there is any room for "dissent" in this country, this is the issue to cry out against.

 

MP,

If you want to, you may ask the Admiral John O. Agwunobi a question about stem cell for an internet discussion that will take place. If you think the White House is so wrong on this, why don't you put them on the spot and see if they have an answer?
Joseph Botwinick

 

It seems you care more about people suffering then what is right and wrong. And what God wants. As for the will of the people. It would send up red flags if I found myself in the majority of the people (aka the world).

Murdering inocent human babies is wrong and evil. It is of the same order as Joseph Mengele the Nazi Dr. who conducted medical research on consentration camp victims. His reasearch lead to medical advances that saved who knows how many people. His reasearch eased the suffering of who knows how many people. Medical procedures invented by him are still used today.

That does not excuse the evil he did. The good that was made from his research does not make what he did right. His reasearch is evil and so is stem cell reasearch. It should not be done. Not with federal money, not with private money, not at all. And Christians should oppose it.

 

Donna, you are trying to shift the burden of proof. You claim a blastocyte is a human being. You cannot prove it by scripture or science.

These blastocytes will be destroyed or die anyway. If you care about these "babies" how about volunteering to be a surrogate mother so they will actually live and become babies? Hmmmm?

 

The Nazis used live, breathing human beings, the ones that I care about their suffering. Your comparison is just poisoning the well.

Again, how is this murdering human babies. These are NOT babies. How do you think you know what God wants, when there is no scripture to support your position? These blastocytes will either deteriorate or be destroyed anyway, and have no chance of being humans.

 

You still haven't answered my question: When does life begin? If not at conception, then when?

 

That is the crux of the matter, isn't it. I don't know exactly when, but it is pretty clear to me that a mass of undefined cells is not a person. It has the potential to become one under the right circumstances. So does a cell from the inside of your cheek. Is that a person too?

Scripture nor science has the answer, SBCP. It is clear that a zygote has no thoughts, no feelings, no sensory perception, no pain, nothing. This doesn't qualify as a human....until it develops.