Bush vetoes stem cell bill as promised

Marcia, you see, you walked right into that one.

The scripture about Adam can be used to make a point, although one I personally don't subscribe to, just like the scripture about "knew me in the womb" can be misappropriated. Neither one talks about when a zygote develops into a separate human. I do think the Genesis passage is a closer match though.

When does the pit of a peach stop being part of the fruit of the parent tree and become a tree in its own right?

 

There is no difference between a fetus and a post birth child. The only difference is time. A fetus does not start as something non-human and turn into a human. A fetus is a less mature human. Just like a 6 month old is a less mature 1 year old.

There is no difference between killing an unborn baby and a born baby, none.

You asked for scripture to support the view that a fetus was a human. Now when I ask for scripture to suport a 6 month old as a human all you have to say is my argument is ludicrous.

Where is the scripture?

 

Walked into what??? I think all my statements were perfectly sound.

Since, according to what you say, we don't know at what stage a zygote is human, then how can we decide at which stage there is no humanity and it is okay to terminate? Isn't that a clue we shouldn't decide such a thing?

I think, however, it is the blastocyst that is used for stem cells, not the zygote, and the blastocyst is more developed. In fact, even at the earlier stage, the zygote has all the DNA from both mother and father.

BTW, a developing baby is not a part of the mother; he/she is separate. So the analogy to the peach pit is invalid. Women are not fruit trees! And the issue here is not a peach pit. Once the egg is fertilized, another human life is in the beginning stages.

How does man have the right to decide at which stage it is okay to say this is not a human life?

 

No I did not. I asked for one to state that a cytoblast or zygote is human. Not a fetus.

I didn't claim there is one. If it isn't obvious to you, you need to spend some time observing children.

 

My point of view does not matter, your point of view does not matter. It is Gods point of view we should be considering. I believe firmly that God does not want us to kill inocent unborn babies.

Grass is created by the divine Creator. Rocks are created by the divine Creator. And I dont even know what a potential living being is. Something is a human life and we should care about it. Or something is not a human life and we should care nothing about it.

I find your possision full of contridictions. From what I gather we should kind of care about unborn babies but not to much because they are not alive.

I am passonate about the argument. That does not mean I am wrong.

 

It is murder. If they are not frozen human beings, what are they? Plants? Trees? Dogs?

When two human beings procreate, what is the product?

If I freeze a tomato what does it become?

 

Nope. We decide life and death issues all the time.

So? And?

Sure women are not trees, but trees and people reproduce, and a peach pit is a potential tree, so the analog is a good one.

And why would he not?

 

I observed my children by ultra shound when they were only weeks old. It was obvious that they were beautiful human lifes at that time. You could see little heart beats and I fell in love with them.

 

MP

Mind if I ask, Do you have children?

 

You are using existing and live interchangeably. Exist only implies subsisting which can go as far as a lamps light exist because of the power from the wall. That is not life.

I don't believe something can die before it is born. Living is a pre requisite to dying. Miscarriages, though unfortunate, is a life that never lived.

I am not pro abortion because I care for all of GOD's creations. Because I differ with my belief of when life begins doesn't mean I believe man should play GOD. There is no dispute that a fetus is a person, I just don't believe that person "lives" until it is brought into life which is at birth.

Compare it to a baptism, one is not born again until they are brought out of the water. It is then we say they are walking in the newness of life. Not while they are still in the water. At that time they are dying to sin.

Understand, because I don't believe an abortionist is a murderer, I do feel, no, I know abortion is man playing GOD. Even if it isn't wrong by mans law, I know it is morally wrong. Just as it is wrong to judge, it is wrong for man to try and be GOD which can only upset the balance and order GOD has given to this universe.

 

Don't mind at all. 3 kids, 2 grandkids.

 

It looks like your views on life are not the only thing that are unbiblical.

I was born again long before I touched the waters of baptisem. I was born again when Jesus became my savior and the Holy Spirit indwellt me. I was not saved by the waters of baptisem.

Are there baptist churches that teach baptismal regeneration?

 

I dont understand how you could look at those grandkids and think that it would have been alright to kill them before they were born.

 

I agree fully with this statement except for the word kill...

I am not saying you are wrong, I believe you feel my position is contridictory because you are comparing it to normal views. GOD does not work within mans understanding. He multiplies by dividing. He adds by subtracting. His own son is older than his mother yet is her son.

I probably agree with all aspects of your view except when the word life comes into play. I believe "life" begins at birth which corresponds to the difinition of born. Is a fetus human, yes. Is a fetus an unborn child, yes.

 

I didn't say saved, I was simply discussing the symbolism of the baptism. The thief on the cross was never baptised yet was saved. However, Jesus said we should be baptized and I was simply going over the symbolism.

Likewise I believe one is baptized with the holy spirit seperately from the ritual baptism. Does that mean I should stop the water baptism, of course not.

 

Human Life is what = value

If there is no human life there is no value. That is why I can cut my grass or smash a rock with out guilt.

 

You said:

"Compare it to a baptism, one is not born again until they are brought out of the water"

I say this is an incorrect statement baptisem is not what makes us born again. Now if you did not mean this then fine. You can clarifie what you ment.

 

I'm simply going by the description of the baptism.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

Do you burry a dead relative? Why do we spend so much on the funeral, because we value the remains. We value many things that are not alive.

Human = value.

 

I could not care less about the dead body. A funeral is a chance for the living relitives and friends to say goodby and remember the person they care about.

I would burry a dead relative because I care about the living survivors. I care not a bit about the dead body.

No life = no value.