Business Meetings gone Bad

Oh my Word!

and I thought I had problems.

 

It has been by experience that if Robert's Rules are followed meetings go much better, unless someone pulls a gun.

Debate devolves into an argument when the people will not simply make their point and allow someone else to speak.

The rules of debate are simple...
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A speaker must first be recognized by the moderator.

You cannot interrupt a speaker, except to ask a question and it cannot be a statement disguised as a question.

Each person may speak twice on a topic and no one may speak a second time until everyone who wants to speak has had their first turn.

The person who made the motion may make a closing speech.
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Meetings get out of hand because they are allowed to get out of hand.

As a point of interest, Gen. Henry Robert compiled the rules after being asked to moderate a church meeting. It did not go well.

MR

 

One of my first memories of church was when I was about 5 years old and a former pastor and a deacon tried to get rid of the current pastor because the church was growing. (jealousy I guess)

Anyway, one sonday morning as the pastor stood to preach, the former pastor and the deacon went up behind the pulpit, picked the current pastor up and threw him into the choir loft.

The Pastor stood up, dusted himself off, walked out, and went home. The whole church accept for about 8 people followed him, and we had service in his front yard.

The Church is history now.

 

Oh My Word!

That would have never happened, had that been me. I totally believe in turning the other Cheek, unless my life is in danger. If they would have came near me, and I thought I was in danger, they would have gotten the tar kicked outta them.

similar situation happened in a church once here, Pastor was threatened and a guy came at him, when the Pastor got done with him, his jaw was broken in 3 places, he had a broken arm, and I think a couple broken ribs. When the police arrived, everyone told the cops that the man attacked him, they guy ended up with 5 years in prison, when police searched the guy, he had a gun on him, so, he got attempted murder as well.

I say, he got off easy... ANYONE who tries to hurt or injure a man of God, I say, gives up his right to life. and any and all injuries he gets, is too good for him.

I'd like to see someone try and throw me... (I weight 320 pounds and I am 6 ft tall... I could hurt someone if I needed to...)

MP

 

This didn't happen in a business meeting but it certanly made the news. In the early 60's a small baptist church in Georgia was just starting the morning worship service when a man asked to speak. Given permission he stated that the pastor was having an affair with his wife and he wanted it to stop. The pastor stood there speechless, looking as if he was frozen. Two men picked him up under the arms and carried him outside. They set him on a stump and went back inside where the deacons were holding a prayer service. After the service ended they went out to find the pastor gone and he never returned to the little church. This story was told to me as truth by a trusted witness of the facts but true or not it is an interesting story. I guess if it happened to me I might freeze up as well, guilty or not.

 

Also, although legally you're presumed innocent until proved guilty, in reality, that's often not the case.

 

Personally, my wife and i are getting tired of wondering if the first Wednesday night of each month will be our last one...which has been the case for the last 6 months.

Our crime? The same as nearly every pastor that has been here for the last 50 years (that is about 20 men btw)...listening more to God than to the "powers that would be".

I've seen where a lot of growing churches have gone to only 1 scheduled business meeting a year...unless a budget or staff change issue requires calling one.
What do you think about that?

in HIS grip
bobby

 

In my younger days I scrapped a bit. But at 5'11" 230lbs and with severly yrs of Army training and self defense classes I doubt anyone would acctually try to assault me. It would be a mistake on there part. I dont like violance nor do I promote it but defense of once life, property, and family is biblically sound.


Rev. Jerry D. Lowery D.D.

 

I feel the same as you, Rev. I wouldn't pick a fight, but it would be a mistake on the part of most people (perhaps not all) to become violent with me. I haven't always been a preacher...

Having said that, I'll say I'm not looking for a fight either! I will always try and be a peace-maker, if I can.

 

sorry i post sorry didnt realize i tried to erase it but it was to late

 

From reading these stories, it is obvious to me that democracy ran churches are not biblical. I see nowhere in Scripture that the congregation should have any say in church matters. Leaders lead, the congregation should submit to their leaders. If churches stuck with the model given us in 1 Timothy, we would not have to worry about:

 

We have a scheduled business meeting once per year, and others as needed. I think it's up to the congregation.

I have seen congregations torn apart because of what you're talking about. "We don't want you to preach on that becaue you'll run off the big contributors", or "We don't want to offend anyone because we want to grow the church". If you preach the truth, you will offend people. If those in charge are more interested in numbers or money, you're in trouble.

 

I've been to some business meetings where some members get into a heated argument. When it gets to that point the two combatants should be told to leave the meeting if they can't control themselves.

 

To the contrary, Acts 6 specifies the church selection of deacons. Acts 13 specifies the church ratification of sending missionaries. 1 Tim 5 specifies the church setting the "salary" of elders. So there is plenty of evidence in teh NT for church body involvement. But that doesn't mean there isn't leaders. The biblical model of church government is pastor led/congregationally governed.

Someone asked about yearly business (rather than monthly). That is usually a constitutional issue. See what your constitution says. But don't lose hte church over it. The reason that church has had 20 pastors in 50 years is because the pastors got frustrated and left. Change takes time. Begin to deemphasize business meetings. If you can, move them to Tuesday night, or Thursday. Make them less important. Publicly say, "There's nothing really to talk about. Here is hte budget report." Start to work to change things outside of the business meeting. Go after the church power brokers on their own turf and own time, at their homes, over lunch. Sit down with the Bible with them and study the authority structure in the church. It will take time.

 

Acts 6 does not deal with the entire congregation as a whole, but rather a select number chosen to appoint. This does not match up with the church model given in 1 Timothy in regards to church leadership.

Act 13:1 In the local church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius the Cyrenian, Manaen, a close friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2 As they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work that I have called them to."
Act 13:3 Then, after they had fasted, prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them off.
This does not imply that the congregtion sent the missionaries off, but rather the "prophets and teachers" who later would be the elders and deacons.

1 Timothy 5 in no way implies the church congregation sets the salary of elders, as the entire chapter is addressed to Timothy.

 

Acts 6 does deal with the entire congregation in selecting deacons. Peter told them to select from among themselves. Acts 13 sets the stage for the team coming back and reporting to the whole church because the whole church had sent them. 1 Tim 5 is a weaker passage, but still indicates congregational involvement in the matter.

 

We have a monthly business meeting at our church and the democracy is very important. It gives everyone an opportunity to get involved.

How a meeting is conducted can reflect the spiritual condition of an individual and an entire congregation.

 

The spiritual condition of most churches is evident long before a business meeting. The majority of people sitting in the pews each Sunday never lead one person to Christ in an entire lifetime. So what does that say about the spiritual condition of the majority of members?

 

Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

While no number is given for the multitude (multitude means large number, not entire), it was most definately not the entire following, as the numbers would have been in the thousands. I would guess that Saddleback has leaders in the hundreds for their congregation of 10k plus. I would consider the "multitude" to be the appointed leaders by the twelve.

Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Act 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

The ones who commissioned and laid their hands were mentioned in verse 1. To claim this was the entire congregation (probably numbering in the thousands) is false.

1 Timothy 5 is addressed to Timothy...not the congregation. To imply that the congregation (again...probably in the thousands) set the salary of the elders would have been mass confusion. This does not imply the congregation set the salary.