But Judas drank the cup!

BobRyan · Jul 21, 2005

I pick -- "APPEASEMENT IS just a bad SPIN of 1John 2:2.

I pick - "ATONING SACRIFICE" is the correct translation. And so "YES" in that case "WHOLE WORLD" means "WHOLE WORLD"!!

I choose to admit to

c. The Greek and Jewish concept of propitiation

Zondervan writes that

‘In classic pagan usage, the word propitiation...was used of averting the wrath of the gods. Renewed favour with heaven was won for the offender by his offering a gift or sacrifice to atone for his trespass’

while Morris comments that

‘...it was often held that the gods became angry with their worshippers and that they had to be appeased by choice offerings’

In the Greek world, the words translated by ‘propitiation’ were used in conjunction with the gods of a particular area, nation or even of an individual.

The ancients looked at the disasters of life around them and saw the hand of their gods in them - each incident (whether personal or corporate) was to them a demonstration of their wrath. But no-one was quite sure why the gods got angry. So they tried to propitiate them (turn away their anger to gain divine favour) by various acts of piety and service such as sacrifice, rituals, vows, dances and, even, games.

So, for instance, a failed crop of the staple diet of that nation or tribal group couldn’t go uninterpreted as the result of the anger of their chosen god - and there became the necessity to ‘appease’ their anger by certain actions. There was also a necessity to continuously offer to the gods to try and keep in their favour, so we see annual rituals (such as the celebration of the solstices) that tried to convey to their gods the reverence and awe in which they were held.

But still the people weren’t always certain just what made their gods angry - trial and error may give pointers in certain directions but there was seldom a time when they could pin-point a particular action that, if they were to do it again, would provoke a similar response.

http://www.arlev.clara.net/propitia.htm#4
Click to expand...

Jarthur001 · Jul 24, 2005

Everywhere i go on this site..we have people rewriting Gods Word.

WILL THE MISLEADING ever stop?

BobRyan · Jul 24, 2005

I choose a path that does not try to insert the pagan notion of "appeasement" into 1John 2:2.

Hence my use of the NIV "He is the ATONING SACRIFICE for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for those of the WHOLE WORLD"

As already shown above this is a Biblical-Hebrew "Atonement" based view of the cross rather than a pagan "appeasement" model of propitiation.

Christ is our atoning sacrifice based on the Bible model of "God SO LOVING the World THAT HE GAVE" -- it is totally the opposite of the pagan idea of an "appeasement offerred to placate God" in propitiation.

In Christ,

Bob

whetstone · Jul 24, 2005

regardless of accepting the Greek understanding of 'appeasement' why do you reject the Jewish understanding of 'whole world' which would have meant 'Jews and Gentiles alike' ?!

BobRyan · Jul 24, 2005

I do not deny that "Whole World" includes Jews and Gentiles.

But your idea that a Jew and Gentile sitting at a table sharing an apple would be called "The Whole World sitting eating lunch" by John or Jews or .... is just silly.

In fact I know of no place in scripture where the two of them would ever be pointed to and called "The Whole World" by John or in 1John or in scripture.

Do you?

In Christ,

Bob

But Judas drank the cup!

BobRyan Well-Known Member

Jarthur001 Active Member

BobRyan Well-Known Member

whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

BobRyan Well-Known Member

Useful Searches

But Judas drank the cup!

BobRyan Well-Known Member

Jarthur001 Active Member

BobRyan Well-Known Member

whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

BobRyan Well-Known Member