But Uzzah had a good heart and thought he was doing right...

[Daniel David]

2 Samuel 6:6-7
6 And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled.

7 Then the anger of the LORD was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God.
___

Have you ever heard that line? Have you ever heard people try to justify all kinds of "worship" based on their ideas of a good heart.

Is Christ pleased when people say that only the heart matters? When asked the greatest commandment, Christ said that it was to love God with all of your mind, heart, soul, and strength (not just the heart).

This notion that God is only concerned with the heart is cruel. To encourage people to worship God in a manner that is not pleasing to him is many times deadly. It is a serious issue. There are many stories in the Bible where people were killed (by God) for offering false worship. I have often wondered if some of peoples problems can be related to their "worship".

Arguments like the following used to justify any kind of "worship" are incomplete and demonstrate a deficiency in theological training:

1. I think it brings God glory.
2. People are getting saved.
3. Paul said to be all things to all people.
4. Music is amoral.
5. It is the only way to reach them.

There are more of course.

 

[Music Man]

PTW, thanks for what you said. I agree 100%.

Now, how do we worship God in a manner that does please Him?

SDG,
Chris

 

[JonathanDT]

Originally posted by Music Man:
how do we worship God in a manner that does please Him?

And more importantly, how do we KNOW that this is the manner that pleases God, and that others don't?? All PTW's argument established is that just because someone has good intentions doesn't mean they're doing right. I agree. Now lets hear about the rest of these assertions that we're encouraging people to worship in a manner not pleasing to God and many times deadly.

 

[Eric B]

Right. And you can add that the arguments of the contemporary worship critics falls into #1— onlly the old styles are good, because only they "bring glory to God". And the inverse of #2: the new styles are leading people away. Plus, someone can come with something "traditional" which they think is right, and still met the same fate. This is what would have happened to the Pharisees if God was still striking down people as much. So yes, many of the arguments of the CCM defenders are weak, but then so are those of the critics. They just have more of a mastery at proof-texting or reading things into the Bible.

 

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Preach the Word:
When asked the greatest commandment, Christ said that it was to love God with all of your mind, heart, soul, and strength (not just the heart).

One small question, please. I do understand what you are saying - but does this not mean that those who teach "the heart" should not be involved in worship are also leading people astray? We have seen several threads recently where it has been stated unequivocally that emotion has no place in worship. You cannot love with all your heart without emotion being involved.

So is this statement also not applicable to those who claim that worship should only come from the mind, and not emotion? Are they not as guilty as those who say the state of the heart is all?

Ruth

 

[Daniel David]

Eric B, I do not disagree. If you notice, I did not list any particular kind of music.

 

[All about Grace]

Uzzah directly disobeyed a command of God and the result was judgment. I have yet to see it proven biblically where God only approves of a certain style or type of music.

Oranges and apples.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
I have yet to see it proven biblically where God only approves of a certain style or type of music.

If you read my post, you would see that I did not mention a particular type of music.

Also, if the "proof" you are looking for is an explicit statement, there are alot of things that you cannot "prove" with Scripture.

 

[DanielFive]

Ruth,

Sorry to poke my nose in here but I was cocerned that you were thinking of me when you said:

We have seen several threads recently where it has been stated unequivocally that emotion has no place in worship

Just for the record I have never said that emotion has no place in worship. My only ascertion was that worship which is based solely on emotion is inadequate. The mind must be involved. Of course we must worship with the spirit of love which involves the heart and emotions.

Hope that was clear in my posts on the other thread.

God Bless,

Enda

 

[Ruth]

No, Enda, don't worry. I wasn't thinking about our discussion at all. Thanks for asking.

But I would really like to know what the rest of you think about what I said. Do you not consider it just as bad to deny the use of the heart in worship, as any of the other things that Jesus named in what he called "the greatest commandment"?

Ruth

 

[er1001]

Hi,ran accross this thread tonight and would like to make a comment or two.
Most Baptist churches in my area are really quite dry,no need to worry about emotion.However a while I was invited to a new work which consisted of mostly young couples wanting to do something for God,excitement was every where.Hymns which were usually slow and lifeless were sang in a more lively fashion,people were excited giving lots of testimonies of God working in their lives,everyone was visiting the lost and inviting folks out to church.The nursery was full of kids which have been known to make a bit of noise from time to time and some would stay after church many evenings and just sing and fellowship.
As a result of visitation some older people started attending and were offended by the excitement saying the santuary of God was no place for laughter and excitement.
I said all that to say that people who i've met who have been saved from certian Hell flames and presented with the keys to the kingdom of God are usually quite excited and emotional until someone tells them its wrong.
No emotion,usually not much going on!!!!!!!!
Just a comment from a cold country,have a great day in the Lord ER

 

[MusicPastor]

Won't it be nice when worship wars are all over? Amazing how much of the discussion centers around what we like, we think, our emotions, our feelings, our styles, etc. Problem is, worship isn't about us at all. Nor is it designed to be for us. ....furthermore, worship isn't the time the church gathers to sing. Worship is a lifestyle of service to Christ.

The stuff discussed here centered around musical style - not worship. When we confuse the two, we do great harm to theologically understanding who Christ is, and that He is the center of worship. Read John 4 and study the language Christ used when he answered the woman at the well about worship.

Unfortunately, we look on the outward appearance, just as the pharisees did. The style isn't the issue....why do you think the psalms were preserved, but not the accompanying music for them? Could it be that the style doesn't matter to God, the substance does. something to think about.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Hear that all the time in the Free church where we "enjoy" a great variety of music within a single worship service. They really DO have a "good heart" and desire to worship God.

Sunday night we had a sing time (old style, lots of Appalachian minor-key stuff) with about 35 who really loved 4-part. Wow. Cried through a bunch of the words and music.

Music is powerful.

 

[Abiyah]

Uzzah would not have felt compelled to steady
the ark if David had first been obedient to our God
and not moved the ark as he did. In the same
manner, some leaders get ahead of our God and
attempt to dictate worship based upon pesonal
preference, which they rename our "God's way."
Worship is personal, between our God and us. As
long as we are not doing something unbiblical,
why should anyone dictate our worship?

However, if we worship to make ourselves feel
better or feel good, I cannot see how that is true
worship. Our God should always be the focus of
worship. If it does not please Him, I think we are
wasting our time and confusing others.

 

[Music Man]

Originally posted by MusicPastor:
Problem is, worship isn't about us at all. Nor is it designed to be for us. ....furthermore, worship isn't the time the church gathers to sing. Worship is a lifestyle of service to Christ.

Right on MP!

Soli Deo Gloria,
Chris

 

[Eric B]

Uzzah would not have felt compelled to steady the ark if David had first been obedient to our God and not moved the ark as he did. In the same manner, some leaders get ahead of our God and
Worship is personal, between our God and us. As
long as we are not doing something unbiblical,
why should anyone dictate our worship?

THANK YOU!!!

That is precisely what happened, and is a perfect correlation!

 

[Music Man]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
Worship is personal, between our God and us.

I agree, but isn't there also a corporate aspect to worship?

Originally posted by Abiyah:
As long as we are not doing something unbiblical...

God takes worship very seriously, and so I wonder if we should not merely strive to avoid doing that which is unbiblical, but strive to do that which God has commanded in His Word.

Having said that, how has God commanded us to worship? Has He given us specific commands on proper worship? Just thought I would ask.

SDG,
Chris