But what about mom and dad

[John of Japan]

Jesus said,

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So yes you can know and tell people that person went to Hell, this should especially preached at Funerals.

Please look at the context. "By their fruits ye shall know them" is referring to false prophets, not professing believers.

 

[Salty]

First I would give the gospel Ray Comfort style, .

Oh brother

Luk_14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

But this hypothetical man is unsaved and will love his deceased parents to the end of the word.


Bottom line - it is easy to say - "Do this", but in reality.....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

[Childish name calling omitted]



How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?



Thank you. Any other breaking news you want to share with us? Night is dark, perhaps? Water is wet?





Actually, it's God who commanded us to preach the Gospel. You do whatever you want. We're going to continue to preach the Gospel.

Good..... then tell me just how do you preach to people who are brain damaged..... do you have some magical way to reach baby's that die in infancy? But I already know the answer to my question.....you cant! So what you going to do ....admit that there are big gaping holes in your theology or are you going to relegate these unfortunates to hell?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

[More childish name calling omitted and reported]

how do you preach to people who are brain damaged

Same way we preach the Gospel to anyone.

[How do you] reach baby's that die in infancy?

We're not Mormons. We don't preach the Gospel to someone after they die.

In the case of children who die before they're able to be saved, we have to say that we simply don't know. All we can do is to trust the Justice and the mercy of God.

The Bible is silent about children who die before they can be saved, but we can extrapolate from what it does say, that God appears to take pity on these little ones because of their relative innocence (that is not to say "innocent" in the sense that they are sinless, but in the sense that they cannot comprehend the moral consequences of their sin).

are you going to relegate these unfortunates to hell?

First of all, it isn't up to me. I leave that to a just and merciful God.

Second, as I explained above, we're not sure that they do go to Hell.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

[More childish name calling omitted and reported]



Same way we preach the Gospel to anyone.



We're not Mormons. We don't preach the Gospel to someone after they die.

In the case of children who die before they're able to be saved, we have to say that we simply don't know. All we can do is to trust the Justice and the mercy of God.

The Bible is silent about children who die before they can be saved, but we can extrapolate from what it does say, that God appears to take pity on these little ones because of their relative innocence (that is not to say "innocent" in the sense that they are sinless, but in the sense that they cannot comprehend the moral consequences of their sin).



First of all, it isn't up to me. I leave that to a just and merciful God.

Second, as I explained above, we're not sure that they do go to Hell.

All right then John.....so the only thing we could hope for is the Mercy & Grace of the Lord. That is what would (& does) keep me from going insane, knowing that my son & sister are deep in his mercy. Genesis 18:25. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

 

[percho]

The OP was stated to be hypothetical, let's remain there for a moment and let's say ten days after Pentecost a man living is Australia, in Adam, died.

Hypothetically, could not that man who in Adam had died not having heard of Christ, at the appearing of Christ, or whenever, not be made alive in Christ and then be told about Christ?

And as it is appointed unto men once, to die, but after this the judgment: Heb 9:27 and I took the liberty in adding a comer after, once.

 

[annsni]

Jesus said,

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So yes you can know and tell people that person went to Hell, this should especially preached at Funerals.

This should NEVER be preached at funerals. It is never our place to say that the person who passed went to hell because honestly we don't know. Was this person saved in the end? It is very possible. I've seen true death bed conversions and so it is not our place to prescribe where this person went. What about the thief on the cross? What fruit did he have to show that he was saved - yet Jesus told him that he would be with him in paradise. THAT preaches.

However, the Gospel is to be preached at every funeral. The message is not for the dead but for the living and as such, we always give the full and clear Gospel at a funeral service.

http://practicalshepherding.com/2012/08/27/what-is-the-best-funeral-advice-i-have-ever-received/

 

[Robert William]

This should NEVER be preached at funerals. It is never our place to say that the person who passed went to hell because honestly we don't know. Was this person saved in the end? It is very possible. I've seen true death bed conversions and so it is not our place to prescribe where this person went. What about the thief on the cross? What fruit did he have to show that he was saved - yet Jesus told him that he would be with him in paradise. THAT preaches.

However, the Gospel is to be preached at every funeral. The message is not for the dead but for the living and as such, we always give the full and clear Gospel at a funeral service.

http://practicalshepherding.com/2012/08/27/what-is-the-best-funeral-advice-i-have-ever-received/

Because salvation is not in mans time or power I believe death bed conversions are very very rare, lip service does zero, and I still say all at the people at the funeral should be told where the heathen is, in hopes that they will cry out to God for mercy. A half gospel is a false gospel, Law needs to be used to show heathens they are guilty and need a Savior, if you just tell them Jesus loves them (which is a lie, see John 3:36) they wont see their need for a Savior.

Here is a video by Ray Comfort that is a good example. Remember, Jesus was not spineless and said let the dead bury the dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLdI-t5IPPg

 

[annsni]

Because salvation is not in mans time or power I believe death bed conversions are very very rare, lip service does zero, and I still say all at the people at the funeral should be told where the heathen is, in hopes that they will cry out to God for mercy. A half gospel is a false gospel, Law needs to be used to show heathens they are guilty and need a Savior, if you just tell them Jesus loves them (which is a lie, see John 3:36) they wont see their need for a Savior.

Here is a video by Ray Comfort that is a good example. Remember, Jesus was not spineless and said let the dead bury the dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLdI-t5IPPg

How many funerals are you invited to officiate?

 

[Robert William]

How many funerals are you invited to officiate?

I'm not a Pastor, if I was I would tell them the heathens is in the eternal lake of fire, and that's where they are going if they do not repent. I wouldn't be invited to do very many funerals, but then, neither would Jesus.

Because salvation is not in mans time or power I believe death bed conversions are very very rare, lip service does zero, and I still say all at the people at the funeral should be told where the heathen is, in hopes that they will cry out to God for mercy. A half gospel is a false gospel, Law needs to be used to show heathens they are guilty and need a Savior, if you just tell them Jesus loves them (which is a lie, see John 3:36) they wont see their need for a Savior. The person who loves tells the most truth, because love rejoices with the truth.

 

[annsni]

I wouldn't be invited to do very many funerals, but then, neither would Jesus.

Actually, I highly doubt Jesus would speak as you would.

And by you not being invited to do very many funerals would mean that the gospel would not be preached.

My husband has preached at numerous funerals and some of them for people we are pretty sure were unsaved but as I said, we just don't know for sure. So what does he do? He allows others to eulogize the dead and then he goes up and shares the Gospel. He speaks clearly of sin, of judgment, of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, of our chance for redemption and the great hope we have in Jesus. He then leaves the results to God. He has had people saved after these funerals (no raising of hands, no Just As I Am altar call but just people coming to him afterwards and asking for more info and then being saved). It has also given him the opportunity to speak to others outside of the funeral who were there but didn't respond and maybe later they have more questions. It's really been an incredible ministry.

What purpose would it serve to say "Welcome to the funeral of James Smith. He was an evil man and he is now burning in the unquenching lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Make sure you don't go there!!"? Is that how Jesus spoke to people? I don't see that in Scripture. We address the living - not the dead. As you said, let the dead bury the dead. That person is gone and it is now our job to address those who are living with the truth of the Gospel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm not a Pastor, if I was I would tell them the heathens is in the eternal lake of fire, and that's where they are going if they do not repent. I wouldn't be invited to do very many funerals, but then, neither would Jesus.

Because salvation is not in mans time or power I believe death bed conversions are very very rare, lip service does zero, and I still say all at the people at the funeral should be told where the heathen is, in hopes that they will cry out to God for mercy. A half gospel is a false gospel, Law needs to be used to show heathens they are guilty and need a Savior, if you just tell them Jesus loves them (which is a lie, see John 3:36) they wont see their need for a Savior. The person who loves tells the most truth, because love rejoices with the truth.

Are you suggesting it is mans decision alone that gets them saved? Where is the HS in all this?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Fine example of The Arminian at heart -VS- The Hyper-Calvinist.

:smilewinkgrin:

Spoken like a true semi PELEGIAN

 

[OldRegular]

This should NEVER be preached at funerals. It is never our place to say that the person who passed went to hell because honestly we don't know. Was this person saved in the end? It is very possible. I've seen true death bed conversions and so it is not our place to prescribe where this person went. What about the thief on the cross? What fruit did he have to show that he was saved - yet Jesus told him that he would be with him in paradise. THAT preaches.

However, the Gospel is to be preached at every funeral. The message is not for the dead but for the living and as such, we always give the full and clear Gospel at a funeral service.

http://practicalshepherding.com/2012/08/27/what-is-the-best-funeral-advice-i-have-ever-received/

Ann, Very well said! It seems to me that one thing missing from many of the posts is the work of the Holy Spirit. God did not make us Judge and we should not presume to judge people, particularly saying they are in hell. {I do believe that Scripture gives us the obligation to counsel, minister to, perhaps judge, and if necessary discipline, those members of our congregation who may go astray.}

I have told this before bit I believe it is worth repeating. I had a niece who, after attending many family reunions with my nephew, had an experience of Grace. I recall the day when she called my older brother aside at a family reunion and asked that he tell the family. She died at the age of 39 after a long, long struggle with melanoma, leaving behind 3 sons, a husband and an extended family that dearly loved her. Before her death she asked her pastor to preach the Gospel at her funeral service in hopes it would reach her Jewish mother and sister! God is Good!

I have quoted the following before and I believe it is worth repeating at this time. W. T. Conner, a professor at the Southwestern Baptist Theological seminary early in the 20th century writes of election as follows [Christian Doctrine , page 155]:

It [Election] means that God has decreed to bring certain ones, upon whom His heart has been eternally set, who are the objects of His eternal love, to faith in Jesus Christ as Saviour. When a man is saved he is not saved as a matter of chance or accident or fate; he is saved in pursuance of an eternal purpose of God. God saves man because He intends to. He saves a particular man, at a particular time, under a particular set of circumstances, because He intends to.

We must never forget that, after all, it IS GOD who saves!

****************************************************************************************************

 

[annsni]

Ann, Very well said! It seems to me that one thing missing from many of the posts is the work of the Holy Spirit. God did not make us Judge and we should not presume to judge people, particularly saying they are in hell. {I do believe that Scripture gives us the obligation to counsel, minister to, perhaps judge, and if necessary discipline, those members of our congregation who may go astray.}

I have told this before bit I believe it is worth repeating. I had a niece who, after attending many family reunions with my nephew, had an experience of Grace. I recall the day when she called my older brother aside at a family reunion and asked that he tell the family. She died at the age of 39 after a long, long struggle with melanoma, leaving behind 3 sons, a husband and an extended family that dearly loved her. Before her death she asked her pastor to preach the Gospel at her funeral service in hopes it would reach her Jewish mother and sister! God is Good!

I have quoted the following before and I believe it is worth repeating at this time. W. T. Conner, a professor at the Southwestern Baptist Theological seminary early in the 20th century writes of election as follows [Christian Doctrine , page 155]:



We must never forget that, after all, it IS GOD who saves!

****************************************************************************************************

Amen!!! God can even call someone on their deathbed and it is a true, beautiful conversion!! My husband went to the deathbed of an old co-worker of his who had a heart attack at age 53 and while this man was in a coma, my husband gave him the Gospel. We don't know if this man heard him or not but as he was speaking to him, tears began to stream down his face. Bob prayed with him and for him and left. He died a few hours later. How do we know that he didn't hear the Gospel and respond at that time? God can make rocks sing and I'm sure He could raise a soul from near death. Bottom line is that we don't prescribe the eternal destination of one who we think was unsaved. We just can't know but we CAN give the Gospel to those living so that they DO know where they are going.

 

[tyndale1946]

Are you suggesting it is mans decision alone that gets them saved? Where is the HS in all this?

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

I'm thankful to the Lord that I can rest easy every night and not worry that Christ will lose any of his children that he came to die for. I'm I really my brothers keeper? The word shall is used 3 times in the angels declaration to Mary.

Thou SHALL bring forth a Son... From the Father
Thou SHALL call his name Jesus... From the Son
For he SHALL save his people from their sins... From the Holy Ghost

A triune declaration planned in eternity before the world was according to Gods love, mercy, and grace. Unmerited favor bestowed upon unworthy subjects. The Father gave them to the Son to save and he accomplished it on the cross and none is lost. "IT IS FINISHED!"... AMEN!...Brother Glen

 

[Robert William]

Actually, I highly doubt Jesus would speak as you would.

And by you not being invited to do very many funerals would mean that the gospel would not be preached.

My husband has preached at numerous funerals and some of them for people we are pretty sure were unsaved but as I said, we just don't know for sure. So what does he do? He allows others to eulogize the dead and then he goes up and shares the Gospel. He speaks clearly of sin, of judgment, of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, of our chance for redemption and the great hope we have in Jesus. He then leaves the results to God. He has had people saved after these funerals (no raising of hands, no Just As I Am altar call but just people coming to him afterwards and asking for more info and then being saved). It has also given him the opportunity to speak to others outside of the funeral who were there but didn't respond and maybe later they have more questions. It's really been an incredible ministry.

What purpose would it serve to say "Welcome to the funeral of James Smith. He was an evil man and he is now burning in the unquenching lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Make sure you don't go there!!"? Is that how Jesus spoke to people? I don't see that in Scripture. We address the living - not the dead. As you said, let the dead bury the dead. That person is gone and it is now our job to address those who are living with the truth of the Gospel.

This video might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AveO6xFqUpY&index=39&list=FL5RDugdu9Pv5WjPf9KYBhHw

Warning, you need to listen to Joel Olsteen to compensate!:laugh::laugh:

 

[Robert William]

Amen!!! God can even call someone on their deathbed and it is a true, beautiful conversion!! My husband went to the deathbed of an old co-worker of his who had a heart attack at age 53 and while this man was in a coma, my husband gave him the Gospel. We don't know if this man heard him or not but as he was speaking to him, tears began to stream down his face. Bob prayed with him and for him and left. He died a few hours later. How do we know that he didn't hear the Gospel and respond at that time? God can make rocks sing and I'm sure He could raise a soul from near death. Bottom line is that we don't prescribe the eternal destination of one who we think was unsaved. We just can't know but we CAN give the Gospel to those living so that they DO know where they are going.

The reason why I believe death bed conversions are very very rare is because salvation is in Gods timing and power, not in mans, and I believe the predestined elect will be regenerated at their appointed time while they are living their life serving their purpose, and yes I know the thief on the cross was an exception.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[Robert William]

Are you suggesting it is mans decision alone that gets them saved? Where is the HS in all this?

Howdy EWF

No, that's what Ann is saying, the reason why I believe death bed conversion are very very rare is because salvation is NOT in mans timing or power. Ann seems to be leaning towards Pelagianism.

 

[annsni]

The reason why I believe death bed conversions are very very rare is because salvation is in Gods timing and power, not in mans, and I believe the predestined elect will be regenerated at their appointed time while they are living their life serving their purpose, and yes I know the thief on the cross was an exception.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

So God can't save a man or woman on their deathbed?