But what about mom and dad

[annsni]

Howdy EWF

No, that's what Ann is saying, the reason why I believe death bed conversion are very very rare is because salvation is NOT in mans timing or power. Ann seems to be leaning towards Pelagianism.

ROTFL!! That's pretty funny. No, I am actually not Pelagian but instead a 5 point Calvinist.

 

[Robert William]

ROTFL!! That's pretty funny. No, I am actually not Pelagian but instead a 5 point Calvinist.

If you don't believe that death bed conversions are very rare, then you are saying salvation is in mans timing and power, and that's Pelagianism.

Let's give you a little test, please explain the following verse to us.

Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[InTheLight]

ROTFL!! That's pretty funny. No, I am actually not Pelagian but instead a 5 point Calvinist.

Double El Oh El!

The non - Cals are accustomed to the name calling and labels by Calvinists. To see Ann get the treatment is hilarious since she is one of the most sensible, well thought Calvinists on BB.

 

[Robert William]

Double El Oh El!

The non - Cals are accustomed to the name calling and labels by Calvinists. To see Ann get the treatment is hilarious since she is one of the most sensible, well thought Calvinists on BB.

Your bragging Ann up show me that I'm on the right track trying to show Ann how liberal she is.

 

[InTheLight]

Your bragging Ann up show me that I'm on the right track trying to show Ann how liberal she is.

We've got Pelagian, we've got Liberal. Can Heretic be too far behind?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Howdy EWF

No, that's what Ann is saying, the reason why I believe death bed conversion are very very rare is because salvation is NOT in mans timing or power. Ann seems to be leaning towards Pelagianism.

There is another Brother on here who has studied this for a while & concludes that there are allot of professing Calvinists who gravitate toward Arminianism. Truthfully, I tend to agree with his conclusion. Now I'm not pointing at Anne or anyone directly.....It just might be prior belief systems (like Catholicism, Methodism, Lutheranism, Pentecostalism etc) that tends to work it's way back into the practices that doesn't get called out on. We should put a post in here dedicated to "Sola Gratia" and see what the consensus is. Truthfully I would also like to see a post dedicated to "New Covenant Theology" since that also rears its head more than I care to mention.

 

[Robert William]

We've got Pelagian, we've got Liberal. Can Heretic be too far behind?

They are all interrelated, and are all to protect their free will idol.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We've got Pelagian, we've got Liberal. Can Heretic be too far behind?

you want to be much more complete in the slanted opinion category? Then try out "Hyper Calvinist" or perhaps "RC Heretic":smilewinkgrin:

 

[InTheLight]

They are all interrelated, and are all to protect their free will idol.

We've now got Idolatry! Can False Convert be too far behind?

 

[annsni]

If you don't believe that death bed conversions are very rare, then you are saying salvation is in mans timing and power, and that's Pelagianism.

Let's give you a little test, please explain the following verse to us.

Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

No, I do not believe that death bed conversions are very rare. I've seen them myself. Why does God choose to save some at the end? I don't know. That's His sovereign decision. But I can tell you that the ones I've seen are real and I have no doubt that these people are in the presence of their Savior right now.

Why do you want me to explain the verse? It says what it says. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God for salvation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We've now got Idolatry! Can False Convert be too far behind?

a guy on here suggested that I was that.....at one time, so Ive seen that one before.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[John of Japan]

Amen!!! God can even call someone on their deathbed and it is a true, beautiful conversion!! My husband went to the deathbed of an old co-worker of his who had a heart attack at age 53 and while this man was in a coma, my husband gave him the Gospel. We don't know if this man heard him or not but as he was speaking to him, tears began to stream down his face. Bob prayed with him and for him and left. He died a few hours later. How do we know that he didn't hear the Gospel and respond at that time? God can make rocks sing and I'm sure He could raise a soul from near death. Bottom line is that we don't prescribe the eternal destination of one who we think was unsaved. We just can't know but we CAN give the Gospel to those living so that they DO know where they are going.

This is a beautiful illustration of your point.

Another illustration I've read is of a cursing atheist who fell overboard from a ship. He was rescued close to death, and woke up saying, "Praise the Lord!" When asked what happened he said, "As I was going under I remembered my mother who taught me about Jesus, and I called out to Him for help and forgiveness!"

 

[John of Japan]

Your bragging Ann up show me that I'm on the right track trying to show Ann how liberal she is.

You're on the wrong track. Ann is one of the farthest from "liberal" on the BB. Perhaps you need to learn more about the word "liberal" which you throw about so casually.

An actual liberal in the historical and proper use of the term would deny one of the fundamentals of the faith: the deity of Christ, His virgin birth, His bodily resurrection, the Gospel, the Second Coming, etc.

 

[sag38]

Mr. William reminds me of the story from Luke 18 of the pharisee and the tax collector. Care to guess which character he seems to fit?

 

[quantumfaith]

Your bragging Ann up show me that I'm on the right track trying to show Ann how liberal she is.

Do you have any idea how callow and childish this sounds?

 

[OldRegular]

Actually, I highly doubt Jesus would speak as you would.

And by you not being invited to do very many funerals would mean that the gospel would not be preached.

My husband has preached at numerous funerals and some of them for people we are pretty sure were unsaved but as I said, we just don't know for sure. So what does he do? He allows others to eulogize the dead and then he goes up and shares the Gospel. He speaks clearly of sin, of judgment, of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, of our chance for redemption and the great hope we have in Jesus. He then leaves the results to God. He has had people saved after these funerals (no raising of hands, no Just As I Am altar call but just people coming to him afterwards and asking for more info and then being saved). It has also given him the opportunity to speak to others outside of the funeral who were there but didn't respond and maybe later they have more questions. It's really been an incredible ministry.

What purpose would it serve to say "Welcome to the funeral of James Smith. He was an evil man and he is now burning in the unquenching lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Make sure you don't go there!!"? Is that how Jesus spoke to people? I don't see that in Scripture. We address the living - not the dead. As you said, let the dead bury the dead. That person is gone and it is now our job to address those who are living with the truth of the Gospel.

Read the above again and your question

"Is that how Jesus spoke to people?"

reminded me of one of my favorite passages of Scripture:

Matthew 11:28-30
28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

**********************************************************************************************

 

[quantumfaith]

Read the above again and your question reminded me of one of my favorite passages of Scripture:

Matthew 11:28-30
28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

**********************************************************************************************

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Robert William]

Actually, I highly doubt Jesus would speak as you would.

And by you not being invited to do very many funerals would mean that the gospel would not be preached.

My husband has preached at numerous funerals and some of them for people we are pretty sure were unsaved but as I said, we just don't know for sure. So what does he do? He allows others to eulogize the dead and then he goes up and shares the Gospel. He speaks clearly of sin, of judgment, of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, of our chance for redemption and the great hope we have in Jesus. He then leaves the results to God. He has had people saved after these funerals (no raising of hands, no Just As I Am altar call but just people coming to him afterwards and asking for more info and then being saved). It has also given him the opportunity to speak to others outside of the funeral who were there but didn't respond and maybe later they have more questions. It's really been an incredible ministry.

What purpose would it serve to say "Welcome to the funeral of James Smith. He was an evil man and he is now burning in the unquenching lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Make sure you don't go there!!"? Is that how Jesus spoke to people? I don't see that in Scripture. We address the living - not the dead. As you said, let the dead bury the dead. That person is gone and it is now our job to address those who are living with the truth of the Gospel.

Ofcourse Jesus and Hid disciples and Prophets spoke like that, why do thing people killed them?:BangHead: DAAAAAAAAAAA

Answer, because they made people very angry. Here are just a few examples in scripture.

Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

 

[annsni]

Ofcourse Jesus and Hid disciples and Prophets spoke like that, why do thing people killed them?:BangHead: DAAAAAAAAAAA

Answer, because they made people very angry. Here are just a few examples in scripture.

Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

I will let the bold speak for itself.

 

[Robert William]

I will let the bold speak for itself.

So you agree, I have proven my point, or will you remain spineless by not telling people the truth? We all get tempted at times to try and fit in with the world, may the Lord have mercy and strengthen His children.

Also you did not answer my question, why did people kill Jesus and His disciples and Prophets?????