By Grace

Get yourself a good dictionary and look up all the meanings of Grace and tell me which one of them has any power to save a human life into eternal life and you may be able to convince me that yes indeed grace saves.

If you can't identify a grace that can save then you need to rethink what or whom it is that actually does the saving.

 

I don't need a dictionary when the Bible clearly says "For by GRACE are ye saved.."

Why can't you accept that? Thousands have died for this truth that Salvation soley of God and not of man.

Salvation is extended because of God's grace- His umerited favor.

I may get in trouble saying this, but you my friend seem to believe in a works based salvation!

 

What is the gift of God? It is certainly not grace, because all men have grace. It is certainly not faith for God has none of it to give, That leaves only "are ye saved". So Paul is telling the Ephesians that Salvation is the gift of God to those who have faith while He, God, is abiding in his grace toward man. Do you not agree? So please tell me again that it is grace that saves, when Paul is clearly stating that it is our faith in God that gets us saved as a free gift from God.

Trying on a little Context,

Paul is expressing that the natural fallout of having faith in God and acting on that faith to tell others, is that a major spiritual battle occurs. Because you believe you will not only benefit but you too will suffer in the manner that the Christ suffered.

Again, a little context really helps.

Presuming you are instructing me regarding my beliefs, let's once again set some context,

 

I cannot accept it because it is not true! We are saved by God, not by Grace! We are saved by God because we have faith in God. We are given the free gift of salvation by God in his Grace through our faith in HIM.

Yes salvation is extended to man because God, IN HIS GRACE grants to man favor that man has not and indeed cannot merit!

There is nothing in my beliefs regarding works. God tells us that our works are as filthy rags.

Let me explain it this way:
God established death as the penalty for sin.
God established that if man fails to keep the law it is a sin punishable by death.
God foresaw that man could not keep all the law, that all men would perish because of sin if HE did not modify his plan. So God, who loved the whole world so much, gave to it his only begotten son, Jesus. Who not only established his church among men but then took upon himself all the sin of the world PAST,PRESENT, and FUTURE, and died as a sacrifice to atone for all sin so that MAN, through faith in God could bypass death and have everlasting life!

While on the cross, Jesus said it is finished. What was finished? ALL the work the Father gave him to do was FINISHED. That means there are no works that man can do because it is all finished!
That makes John 6:28,29 ring true where it says, "Then they said to him, 'What must we do if we are to carry out God's work?' Jesus gave them this answer, 'This is carrying out God's work: you must believe in the one he has sent.' ". Therefore the only thing left for man to do is believe. And if you think believing is work, then you are sadly misinformed. Work presupposes energy expenditure, there is no energy expended in believing. So you would quite simply be wrong to think otherwise.

NO SIR, My salvation beliefs do not include works as a means to anything! Works are what we who believe in God and have our salvation promised to us, do as a sign of our faith, and not as a means of salvation.

If you do not believe that, say so, let's clear this matter up here and now.

 

Questions

Faith is based on knowledge, knowledge comes from hearing and faith in God comes from hearing that knowledge contained in the word of God. Those who have faith have heard and believed, those who lack faith have either not heard, or they have not believed what they heard.

Same answer.

Same answer.

God did not create robots, he made men and gave them all the ability to have faith and the ability to either believe or not believe. That's the way God made man!

 

Have you not heard that we are the product of our environment? It is in our environment that we get our "conditioning" as to what is and is not acceptable. That is why two people can have different results with the word of God.

Have you ever been in the military? If yes have you ever observed how the members receive training? They are first stripped of individuality so that they can become a cohesive unit this is called boot camp. Then they are all trained to respond to the same stimulus in the same way, so that there are no surprizes, and no weaknesses in the ranks, and so that if one is struck down a 'like-replacement' is readily available to take the one's place.

We don't do that in civilian life because we "value" the person's individuality. Consequently we end up with different results to the same stimulous.

 

Wes, when we talk of grace we are talking of a characteristic of God in his relationship to man. When we talk of grace, we are well aware that we are talking of "God through his grace".

You are using words such as faith, knowledge and believe to describe the means to salvation, which are all human based. But when we use a God based term such as Grace you go on the offensive.

This leads us to think you advocate a works based salvation.

 

Wes,
Do you believe that salvation is of God or of man?

 

Well for the 2000nth time.

God is the one who does the saving, and he saves only those who have faith in HIM!

 

And the faith is given by God. Repentance also is a gift of God, no repentance no faith, no faith, no Salvation, it starts with God and ends with God, its Grace all the way.

 

Then perhaps you need to think things through.

All that there is was made by God, agree?

God made that galaxies, solar systems, etc. And all of them do exactly what God intended for them to do without his direct intervention. Can we agree on that?

God created this earth, and set it in motion too, and he does not have to attended to the moon orbiting around the earth, and he does not have to attend to the tides in the sees, and he does not have to attend to the sun, about what temperature to make it for the proper working of the earth. Can you agree with that too?

Did God not make man, did he not give man a the capacity to live on this earth and to survive with out his constant intervention? Can we agree to that?

God made Salvation. He set the plan in motion and completed all the work for salvation to take place. Can you agree? I mean after all its been working for 2000 years. So what is there that is so difficult to understand about who gets saved and who doesn't get saved? What's it to you anyway? It's not your plan, it's God's!

If God said, "you must have faith to be saved", is that sufficient? If God said you must have faith while I have Grace, it that sufficient? If God said I am only going to save certain humans and it is my choice only, there would be no reason for Grace! Zapp! you're saved! or Zap! you go to hell!

The point is God in his Grace Saves only those who while he is in his Grace believe in Him! That's what the scriptures tell me. Do they tell you something different? If yes, by all means tell me where!

 

"If God said, "you must have faith to be saved", is that sufficient?"

It is and He did.

"If God said you must have faith while I have Grace, it that sufficient? "

Because of Gods Grace He gives us faith.

"If God said I am only going to save certain humans and it is my choice only, there would be no reason for Grace!"

It is his choice, it is only because of his Grace that anyone is redeemed from eternal damnation.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.


John 6:44-45 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.


John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.


Romans 8:29-30 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


Romans 9:14-24 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him.

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


1 Peter 2:4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.


Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."


Matthew 20:16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."


Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You, That he may dwell in Your courts. We shall be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Of Your holy temple.

 

RON35951

How does God give what he does not have?

Why do you believe that Omniscient, all seeing God would have need of that which is the substance of things hoped for and things not seen? What pray tell is there that God could hope for and not see? God has no faith to give!

So please explain how he does that!

 

That was the question I attempted to get answered in the thread: Why Do Some Reject While Others Receive Salvation?. No one of Arminian persuasion was inclined, or perhaps able, to do so. Are you?

 

I answered, but my answer was ignored.

 

The Bible says explicitly that God gives faith. Why do you deny that in favor of your own ideas?

 

Wes, How can you say that we can possess anything that the creator did not give us?