• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

By His Absolute Sovereign Will, God Infallibly Secures Eternal Life for lost souls “According to His Good Pleasure that He Purposed in Himself”

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
A lady once asked me why God would ever Choose some lost souls and not others. She said that she didn't get that.

I told her I had the answer and turned to Ephesians 1:8b "According to His Good Pleasure which He hath Purposed in Himself."

Do you get it? How did I do? I believe that is it, that I had just happened to have read it lately.

As for the 'universal redemption' idea, we can give the average Armenian 5 Scriptures that they may think teach it, for every 1 that they are stuck on, and none of them do.


Adapted from:

The Cause of God and Truth by John Gill, D.D.

PART I, SECTION XLV.

“These words are often used to oppose God’s Decree of Reprobation,

and in favor of ‘universal redemption’; in 1 Timothy 2:4;

Who Will have all men to be Saved, and to Come unto the Knowledge of the Truth,”

but with what success will be seen when it is observed,”

1. “That the Salvation which God here Wills that all men should enjoy,

A.) “is not a mere possibility of Salvation for all,

B.) “nor putting all men into a salvable state,

C.) “nor an offer of salvation to all,

D.) “nor a proposal of sufficient means being made for Salvation to all in His Word; but a Real, Certain, and Actual Salvation, which He has Determined they shall have, has Provided and Occurred in the Covenant of His Grace, sent His Son into this World to Effect, which is Fully Accomplished by the Finished Work of Jesus Christ.”

John 6:29; “Jesus answered and said unto them,

This is the Work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath Sent.”

2. “That the Will of God, that all men should be Saved, is not a Conditional Will, and not a will that depends upon the will of man, or anything to be performed by him: for if this was the case, none might be Saved;

“and if any should be Saved by some religious behavior they think they are performing, whether counting beads, or thinking they made a decision of having belief in what they think to be ‘faith’, salvation would be of him that willeth, and of him that runneth, and not of God that Sheweth Mercy, contrary to the express words of scripture (Romans 9:16) but this Will of God, respecting the Salvation of men, is Absolute and Unconditional, and God’s Will is what Infallibly Secures and Produces their Eternal Life.”

3. “ That the all men whom God would have to be Saved, are such whom He would also have to come to the knowledge of the Truth; that is, not a mere Nominal, but Experimental Personal knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and of the True Way of Life and Salvation by Him; and all those whom God Saves are brought by His Spirit and Grace to an acquaintance, Personally, with the Way, the Truth, and the Life, which is an Act of His Sovereign Will, and an Instance of His Distinguishing Favor;

4. “By all men whom God would have to be Saved, we are not to understand every individual, of mankind, since it is not the Will of God that all men, in this large sense, should be Saved; for it is His Will that some men should be Damned, and that very Justly, for their sins and transgressions; ungodly men, who were before of Old Ordained to this Condemnation (Jude 1:4); and to whom it will be said, Go, ye Cursed, into Everlasting Fire.

“Moreover, if it was the Will of God that every individual of Mankind should be Saved, then every one would be Saved; for who hath Resisted His Will? or can do it? Does God not Do According to His Will in the Armies of the Heavens, and among the inhabitants of the Earth? (Rom. 9:19; Dan. 4:35; Eph. 1:11).

“Nay, does He not work all things after the Counsel of His Own Will? and it is certain that all men, in this large sense, are not Saved, for some will go away into Everlasting Punishment, when the Righteous shall go into Eternal Life (Matt. 25:46).

“Besides, the same persons God would have Saved He would have Come to the Knowledge of the Truth; but this is not His Will with respect to every individual of Mankind; were it His Will, He would, no doubt, Give to every man the Means of it, which He has not Done, nor does He;

“for many hundred years God Suffered all Nations to walk in their ways, and Overlooked the Times of their Ignorance.

“He showed His Word unto Jacob, His Statutes and His Judgments unto Israel; he hath not dealt so with any Nation: and as for His Judgments, they have not known them (Acts 14:16; 17:30; Psa. 147:19, 20).

“From many to whom the Gospel does Come, it is Hid; some are given up to Strong Delusions to believe a lie, and few are Savingly and Experimentally acquainted with the Truth as it is in Jesus.”

Con't;
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Charles Spurgeon rebuked Calvinists for contorting Scripture to fit their grand scheme:
Charles Spurgeon said that he had a meaning for "all men" in II Timothy 2:1-4 that the text "fairly bears",
I Timothy 2:4
"What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears?
But does it really, at all, in any way whatsoever?

Is it within the realm of possibility that Charles Spurgeon could be shortsighted in his use of Hermenutics?

You may be surprised at what the meaning the Bible "fairly bears" and speaks of in this way, here, and in many other places.

These are a few ways that this verse is argued to teach 'universal redemption' and 'free will',
even though Jesus said when Speaking of the "will" of lost souls;
in John 5:40;
"And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have Life."


Adapted from:

The Cause of God and Truth by John Gill, D.D.,
PART I, SECTION XLV.

1 Timothy 2:4;
Who Will have "all men" to be Saved, and to Come unto the Knowledge of the Truth,”

5. "There are indeed many things urged in favor of this large sense of the phrase "all men".

(Here are some that haven't been brought up)

Such as,"1. The exhortation of the Apostle, in ver. 1, that supplications, prayers, intercessions,
and giving of thanks, be made for "all men".

"But surely by "all men", is not meant every individual man, that has been, is, or shall be, in the world;
1a. millions of men are dead and gone, for whom prayer is not to be made;
1b. many in Hell, to whom it would be of no service;
1c. and many in heaven, who stand in no need of it;
1d. nor should we pray for such who have sinned the sin unto death (1 John 5:16).

"Besides giving of thanks, as well as prayers, were to be made for "all men";
"...but surely the apostle’s meaning is not that the saints should give thanks for wicked men,
and persecutors, and particularly for a persecuting Nero;
"...nor for heretics or false teachers, such as Hymeneus and Alexander, whom he had delivered to Satan;

"the phrase could therefore be taken in a limited and restrained sense, for some only
, as appears from ver. 2,
"for kings and for all in authority"; that is, for men of the highest, as well as of the lowest rank and quality.

2. This sense that Jesus died for all men without exception is contended for, from the reason given in ver. 5,
for there is one God, Who is the God
"of all", the common Father and Creator of "all men."

Now, "it is said, thus He is the God of "all men" in particular; and so this argument must show, He would have "all men" in particular to be Saved."

"To which may be replied, that God is the God of "all men", as the God of Nature and Providence, but not as the God of Grace, or in a Covenant Way, for then it would he no distinguishing Favor or Happiness to any people, that the Lord is their God; He is indeed the One God and Father "of all", Who is "Above all, and Through all, and In you all", meaning believers, to whom the Apostle writes (Eph. 4:6; Rom. 10:12);

"the Same Lord is Rich "unto all", but then it is to them that call upon Him.

3. This is argued for from the One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus; but it should be observed, that He is not said to be the Mediator between God and "all men", and much less every individual man;

"and since Jesus is expressly called, the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 12:24),
He Only can be a Mediator for those who are in that Covenant;

"and it is plain, that He has not Performed the several Branches of His Meditorial Office, the Oblation of Himself on the cross, and His Intercession in Heaven, for every man;

"and though the Nature Jesus Assumed common to "all men", was endued with the Best of Human Affections, and Subject to the Common Law of Humanity; yet, since it was assumed with a peculiar view to the Elect of God, the seed of Abraham, they share all the peculiar blessings and favors arising from the assumption of such a Nature.

4. "It is observed that Christ is said, in ver. 6, to Give Himself a Ransom "for all", which is understood of "all men" in particular; but it should be observed also, that this Ransom is avnti,lutron u`per pa,ntwn, "a Vicarious Ransom Substituted in the Room and Stead "of all", whereby a Full Price was Paid "for all", and a Plenary Satisfaction made for the sins "of all", which cannot be true of every individual man, for then no man could be justly Condemned and Punished.

"
The sense of those words is best understood by what Christ Himself has said, The Son of Man Came "not to be ministered unto, but to Minister, and Give His Life a Ransom for many" (Matt. 20:28).

"So the Hebrew word "lk", "all", to which this answers, signifies sometimes 'many', 'a multitude'; and sometimes only 'a part of a multitude', as Kimchi has observed.

Con't;
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
"Wherefore, 5. It is not wrong also by "all men" to understand 'some of all sorts of men and women', as Austin did long ago, and is the sense in which the word "all" is to be taken in many places;

"as in Gen. 7:14; "They, and every beast after his kind, and "all" the cattle after their kind,
and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind,
and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort."


"Matt. 4:23, 24;

23; "And Jesus went about "all" Galilee, teaching in their synagogues,
and Preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and Healing all manner of sickness
and all manner of disease among the people.

24; "And His Fame went throughout "all" Syria: and they brought unto Him all sick people
that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils,
and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and He healed them.


"Joel 2:28; "And it shall Come to Pass afterward, that I Will Pour Out My Spirit upon "all" flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall Prophesy, your old men shall dream Dreams, your young men shall see Visions:"


"and is the meaning of it in ver. 1, and well agrees with the matter of fact;

since Christ has Redeemed some of "all" Nations, some out of every kindred, tongue, and people; and God saves and calls some of every rank and quality, as kings and peasants: of every state and condition, as rich and poor, bond and free; of every sex, male and female; of every age, young and old; and all sorts of sinners, greater and less. It is indeed said, that, according to this limitation and sense of the words, God is Willing some "of all" kindred and people should be Saved;

"it may more truly and properly be said, that God would have "all men" to be damned, and that Christ died for none; since they for whom He died are none, according to this Doctrine, comparatively to the greater number for whom He did not die.

"To which I answer, it does not become us to say what might be more truly and properly said by God, or an Inspired writer. However, this is certain, that as there is a Whole World that lies in wickedness (1 John 5:19), so there is a World that shall be damned; which agrees with what the Apostle Paul says in so many words, that the World shall be Condemned, We are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be Condemned or Damned with the World (1 Cor. 11:32).

"Moreover, though they for whom Christ died are but few comparatively, yet they cannot be said, in a comparative sense, or in any sense at all, to be none; and indeed, when considered by themselves, are a number which no man can number.


This is the solution, which I believe would be able to come close to saying it is the "Divine Interpretation" as any we can get.

In other words, what God would have for us that He wats us to understand from His Revelation to Mankind in the Bible.

"But, 6. I rather think that by "all men" are meant 'the Gentiles',
who are sometimes called "the World", "the Whole World", and every "Creature";

Rom. 11:12, 15; IN THIS VERSE 11, "THE WORLD" AND "THE GENTILES"
IN THE BIBLE ARE SHOWN TO BE SPOKEN OF AS BEING EQUAL:

12; "Now if the fall of them (THE JEWS) be the riches of the World,
and the diminishing of them
(THE JEWS) the riches of the Gentiles;
how much more their fulness?"


15; "For if the casting away of them" (THE JEWS) "be the reconciling of the World (the Gentiles),
what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?"


1 John 2:2; "And He is the Propitiation for our sins" (THE ELECT REMNANT AMONG THE JEWS):
"and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the Whole World"
(THE ELECT REMNANT AMONG THE GENTILES) .

Mark 16:15; "And He said unto them, Go ye into all the World," (THE GENTILE NATIONS OF THE WORLD)
"and Preach the Gospel to every Creature" ( THE GENTILE 'CREATURES' OF THE GENTILE NATIONS, OR WORLD).


"which is the sense, I apprehend, in which it is used in ver. 1, where the Apostle exhorts, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving thanks, be made for "all men"; for kings, and for all in authority; which was contrary to a notion that obtained among the Jews, of whom there were many in the primitive churches, that they should not pray for heathens and heathen magistrates.

"The apostle enforces this exhortation from the advantage which would accrue to themselves; that we may lead a peaceable and quiet life, in all godliness and honesty; besides, says he, This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, Who will have "all men", Gentiles, as well as Jews, to be Saved, and to Come to the Knowledge of the Truth, and therefore has Sent His Ministers to Preach the Gospel among THE JEWS AND THE GENTILES;

"and the Doctrine of the Grace of God has appeared to these, "all men", NOT JUST THE JEWS, in order to bring them to THE LORD; for there is one God of Jews and Gentiles, Who, by His Gospel, has taken out of the latter, THE GENTILES, a people for His Name and Glory;

"and there is One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, Who, not like Moses, who was the Mediator for the Jews only, but Jesus is Mediator for the Gentiles also; and is become our Peace, that hath Made both One, Reconciled both in One Body on the cross; Preached Peace to them that were afar off, and to them that were nigh; through Whom, as the Mediator, both have an access by One Spirit to the Father;

"Who also Gave Himself a Ransom "for all" (Eph. 2:14-18), to Redeem the Gentiles as well as Jews; which was to be testified in due time to them, as it was by the Apostle, who adds, Whereunto I am ordained a preacher and an Apostle (I speak the truth in Christ, I lie not,) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity; and then concludes, I will therefore that men pray everywhere, and not be confined to the Temple for Public Prayer, another Jewish notion and practice, lifting up Holy hands without wrath and doubting.

"Seeing then there are some Jewish notions pointed at in the context, and the whole is adapted to the state and case of the Gentiles, in the New Testament Gospel Age, there is a good deal of reason to conclude that "THE GENTILES" are designed where the Bible says "all men", here, as well as in many other supposedly difficult, or controversial Scriptures.

"whereby another principle of the Jews is confuted, which is, that the Gentiles should receive no Benefit by the Messiah when Jesus Came; and is the true reason of most, if not of all, those 'universal' expressions, relating to the death of Christ, we meet with in Scripture.

"From the whole, since these words "all men" cannot be understood of every individual man,
they cannot be thought to militate against God’s Righteous Decree of Reprobation,
nor to maintain and support 'universal redemption', or 'free will
'.
 
Top