C.H. Spurgeon and election

[gb93433]

Maybe you need to try it instead of believing Calvin's Institutes as final authority.

Seriously, are you on medication? Some of the things you write makes no sense and have no connection. At times you contradict yourself in the same posting.

 

[Dale-c]

Maybe you need to try it instead of believing Calvin's Institutes as final authority.

YOur tangled mess of your twisting of the scripture are bad enough.
Then to add insult to injury you throw a little worthless ad hominem into the mix.

Nobody even mentioned Calvin's institutes in this thread and I have never even read it.
I honestly do not know why you can bash people like you do and stay around here.

 

[Rippon]

YOur tangled mess of your twisting of the scripture are bad enough.
Then to add insult to injury you throw a little worthless ad hominem into the mix.

Nobody even mentioned Calvin's institutes in this thread and I have never even read it.
I honestly do not know why you can bash people like you do and stay around here.

SFIC is not the only one to pull that ruse off . A mod on another thread said to me : " The Bible and 'The Institutes of Calvin are not one and the same thing . The sooner you learn that the better off you will be ."

He brought that up , not me . And of course for him or SFIC to throw that in as kind of a roadblock is silly and wrong . They know it , but they do it anyway . I guess they think it's sort of a clincher for them .

 

[Linda64]

YOur tangled mess of your twisting of the scripture are bad enough.
Then to add insult to injury you throw a little worthless ad hominem into the mix.

Nobody even mentioned Calvin's institutes in this thread and I have never even read it.
I honestly do not know why you can bash people like you do and stay around here.

Without the Institutes of the Christian Religion written by John Calvin (written when Calvin was 26 years old...one year after he converted to "Protestantism"), the entire theology of TULIP and Calvinism would fall flat on its face. It's not necessary to mention the Institutes...the theology permeates this thread and all other threads concerning Calvinism.

 

[webdog]

and I am sure he chose me before I was born, or else he never would have chosen me afterwards;

This phrase by Spurgeon confines God to time. It is this whole "pre", and "fore" understanding (or mis) that I believe leads to calvinists' deterministic model of God's electing placed within a specific timeframe. God is omnipresent. He exists in all points in time, and outside of time AT the same time. He is the great "I AM". This whole "He chose me first" is not found in Scripture. While he was a great preacher, he was still a man, and fallible like us all. Scripture is for our benefit, not God's. That is why the need for "pre" and "fore" phrasing...to get a little taste of God's omnipotent, omniscient, ominpresent power.

 

[Dale-c]

Without the Institutes of the Christian Religion written by John Calvin (written when Calvin was 26 years old...one year after he converted to "Protestantism"), the entire theology of TULIP and Calvinism would fall flat on its face. It's not necessary to mention the Institutes...the theology permeates this thread and all other threads concerning Calvinism.

Have you ever read the Institutes?

I have not. But I have found those doctrines in the bible.
YOur statement is nonsense.

It would be like me saying that you could not get your theology without Billy Sunday.

 

[gb93433]

Without the Institutes of the Christian Religion written by John Calvin (written when Calvin was 26 years old...one year after he converted to "Protestantism"), the entire theology of TULIP and Calvinism would fall flat on its face. It's not necessary to mention the Institutes...the theology permeates this thread and all other threads concerning Calvinism.

I do not find John Calvin's name in the Bible. I only find that I am to focus on Christ. I have read Calvin's Institutes partly because I wanted to know what he actually wrote. I found that a lot of what is attributed to him is not true. Calvin himself realized the shortcomings of his own theology if carried too far.

It seems the first time it got brought uop in thsi thread was aimed at me by SFIC. So I asked for a quote to support his assertion and received nothing.

In fact there are a number of times where I mentioned that Calvinism is idolatry.

You do know that God created evil.

 

[Dale-c]

It seems the first time it got brought uop in thsi thread was aimed at me by SFIC. So I asked for a quote to support his assertion and received nothing.

I learned from another thread that SFIC does not have to back up his statements.
It is our job to prove them false.

Here is what he said:

Too many to name. Buy the book and then disprove my post. Otherwise, quit attacking me just because you can't disprove what I say.

You can find the context here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=48056&page=14
http://
He had made accusations against a publication and failed to give any documentation to support his claims.
When probed he said the above.

 

[saved and sure]

Spurgeon was not a liar. He preached to true gospel and thousands were saved by the grace of God under his preaching.

If only we had more like him today.

I am curious as to what the "TRUE" Gospel is?

Does it vary from John 3:16?

 

[Dale-c]

I am curious as to what the "TRUE" Gospel is?

Does it vary from John 3:16?

I am not sure what you are getting at.

No, the true gospel does not vary from John 3:16.
That is a basic summary of the gospel.

It is the gospel that C.H. Spurgeon preached.
Of course he did preach the whole bible and not simply select passages that fit his purposes.

 

[annsni]

Without the Institutes of the Christian Religion written by John Calvin (written when Calvin was 26 years old...one year after he converted to "Protestantism"), the entire theology of TULIP and Calvinism would fall flat on its face. It's not necessary to mention the Institutes...the theology permeates this thread and all other threads concerning Calvinism.

Last I checked, Scripture pre-dated Calvin. So he just restated Scripture.

 

[Dale-c]

Last I checked, Scripture pre-dated Calvin. So he just restated Scripture.

Shhh....you are bursting Linda's bubble...or strawman or whatever.

 

[Linda64]

Shhh....you are bursting Linda's bubble...or strawman or whatever.

Last time I looked, John Calvin's Institutes had nothing to do with the Bible. They are man's interpretations of the Bible. I reject the Institutes ... yes, Dale, I have read a portion of the Institutes---pretty dry reading.

 

[Dale-c]

Linda, the straw man is that you said the only way to come up with calvinistic doctrine was to read from the institutes.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
According to your husband, you lied, either intentionally or unintentionally.
becuase you told a falsehood.

 

[Dale-c]

... yes, Dale, I have read a portion of the Institutes---pretty dry reading.

That does not suprise me you would think so,
As I said, I have not read it so I can't comment on how good it is from personal experience.
But since I have not read it you can't claim that is where I get my theology.

 

[Linda64]

That does not suprise me you would think so,
As I said, I have not read it so I can't comment on how good it is from personal experience.
But since I have not read it you can't claim that is where I get my theology.

I guess you must have believed other Calvinists who have read the Institutes...so therefore, you have gotten your theology INDIRECTLY from John Calvin...through other Calvinists.

 

[saved and sure]

If you do not believe in election then you deny the Bible.
YOu may have a different view than Spurgeon but you either believe in some form of election or you do not believe the Bible is the word of God.

This is truly the most ridiculous statement I have heard in a long time. You lose credibilty with these types of arguments.

 

[annsni]

This is truly the most ridiculous statement I have heard in a long time. You lose credibilty with these types of arguments.

Since Scripture speaks of election, and God's calling the saved, why is this the most ridiculous statement?

 

[Bob Alkire]

Last I checked, Scripture pre-dated Calvin. So he just restated Scripture.

I read this type of stuff from time to time. I can take you to people from the two main views who have fought over their theology and they both use the Scripture well for their view, I'm of neither of those two views. I guess I'm more like J. Vernon McGree was when he said good men and smarter men than he, from Calvinistic camp and from Arminanism have had many fights over it and they both run into trouble somewhere in the Scripture. He was Calvinistic but didn't push it much and I think he ended up a three or four pointer, but I could be wrong on that. I know Wesley isn't always in accord with Arminanism but I put him in that camp, but I have no question he was used greatly by God as Spurgeon was, and many more out of each of those two camps as well as folks out of a camp like mine which isn't either one.

 

[annsni]

Back in February on a thread that I started about our pastor teaching that both Calvinism and Arminianism are true and Scriptural, Allen was kind enough to post this quote from Spurgeon from his sermon "A Defense of Calvinism:

I do not think I differ from any of my Hyper-Calvinistic brethren in what I do believe, but I differ from them in what they do not believe. I do not hold any less than they do, but I hold a little more, and, I think, a little more of the truth revealed in the Scriptures. Not only are there a few cardinal doctrines, by which we can steer our ship North, South, East, or West, but as we study the Word, we shall begin to learn something about the North-west and North-east, and all else that lies between the four cardinal points. The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. For instance, I read in one Book of the Bible, "The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Yet I am taught, in another part of the same inspired Word, that "it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free-will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few can see clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one part of the Bible that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find, in another Scripture, that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is only my folly that leads me to imagine that these two truths can ever contradict each other.

I do not believe they can ever be welded into one upon any earthly anvil, but they certainly shall be one in eternity. They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge, but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.

There was a bunch of discussion about it and since I see evidence of both free will and election in Scripture, then there must be a truth that my humble mind can't comprehend at this time. Someday, when I'm face to face with my Savior, I just might get it.