C.S. Lewis: "If nothing remains...

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

Yes, I deny that salvation is on account of election. Salvation is on account of Christ's work. Solus Christus.

Like Christ's work. Like regeneration, faith and belief, justification, adoption, sanctification, glorification.

Yes

It's supernatural by definition, because it's something God does.

Here's my question to you: If people are saved because God foresees that they will believe, how is that any more miraculous than people being saved because God chooses them? In fact, isn't God personally active in salvation because of foresight than he is in salvation because of election.

Depending, I suppose, on how you define miraculous, but since you admit that everything after the choosing is miraculous, that means your original argument—that in Calvinism, salvation is a natural concept—is completely bunk.

 

Yes. This is like asking "Did your car start because you turned the key? Or because it had gas in it?" Both are necessary.

Belief is the means of a sort through which they are saved.

No.

Salvation is assured by election, but is not received until belief.

Because God ordained it that way.

 

Incorrect. You believe because you are elect. You are saved because you believe. "Elect" and "saved" are not interchangeable. They are clearly distinct.

No it's not.

 

Path

We are being elected to salvation through the Gospel.

You have two paths you can go. Believe and trust to Jesus, submission or walk away to condemnation.

The Gospel is foolishnes to those who are perishing, but to us who believe it is the power of God unto salvation.

You are dead, so the Gospel is foolishness. Until you trust in Jesus and come to Him to have life. It will continue to be foolishness.

It is the work of God that you believe, so trust in Him even through the foolishness of the Gospel

 

Maybe because he's not? Donna was out of line in attacking him.

 

Well you are changing. You used to say we were elected through faith. You never managed to show that from Scripture. Perhaps you can show this from Scripture. So tell us, where does Scripture tell us that we are elected to salvation through the gospel?

Careful ... You are sounding like a Calvinist.

And more Calvinism.

So here's the question: If the gospel is foolishness when you are dead, why would you trust in it for salvation? This seems to me to refute your whole position.

How is this different than Calvinism?

You sound like a Calvinist all except the first statement. Why?

 

My suggestion was that she/we treat him "like a troll" by ignoring him, even if he really doesn't meet the full definition of a troll, the treatment can be the same.

Personally in my short time here at the board, I have already seen who is not worth arguing with. Skypair is one of them.
You are not.

 

psalms.

You are dead Unless you are born again you are dead. Flesh gives birth to flesh. Whatever you do only gives rise to more flesh. Spirit gives birth to spirit. One must be born again.

The gospel is not foolish to the sheep it is foolish to those perishing.

john.

 

foolishness

It is foolishness to the dead, but if the dead come to Jesus they will have life.

Until you come to Jesus you are dead in your trangression and sin.

Sheep will come to Jesus even with the foolishness of the Gospel being preached.

It is not foolishness to those who are being saved by it. Sheep are the ones who come to Jesus. The goats will try to lead them to the pit of destruction.

You don't have to be born again to trust in Jesus, you have to born again to see heaven. People can trust in another without being born again.

Do not let a goat tell you, you can't come to Jesus. The Father is not stopping you from comming.

God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, even if men can't understand that truth. You can believe God and His word.

Matthew 9:36
When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.

 

To answer your question - I am already saved. I was saved when I repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. And I plead with others who are not saved - that they need to repent and believe on Christ. Does that answer your question?

Yes, I have children. Yes, I try to instruct them in the way they should go. But I don't construct lies about their behavior - I deal with what their actual problems are and teach them accordingly. I guess this is where the problem lies between us - you see us Calvinists as mere children where you are this overwhelming authority over us. Your approach is arrogant and loud and obnoxious. You set yourself up as an authority in this matter, but you have shown time and time again that you know very little about what us little kids believe. Like Larry said, we can be teachable when the one teaching us actually knows what they are teaching. You do not. I think it's time for you to let some other non-Cals on this board take up your mantle. You have shown yourself as unworthy in this debate.

 

Nobody believes that God gives the elect some extra brain cell by which they believe, so answering the question is pointless.

Of course not. Why would he, since he didn't believe anything was implanted.

Some say that elect infants who die in the womb may be regenerated before birth. If so, this would be a miraculous act whereby they are made new creatures by God's supernatural work.

You're mixing up Calvinists with Lutherans or Catholics on this. Calvinists, even those who baptize infants, don't think that baptism regenerates.

I believe the Holy Spirit makes them a new creature and so they believe.

And it's not "rather than the Spirit being an "influence"". This is the way the Spirit influences.

But what men call it is irrelevant. Calvinists see salvation as a miraculous event, thus the whole point of your opening post is shot, and there's really nothing left to discuss in regards to this subject.

 

Nope. It's not like saying that at all. It's like saying that both thigns are needed.

At regeneration or calling, the elect have somethign that the non-elect don't. That does not make them better than the non-elect. It is given to them by God.

It is a very good illustration, provided you use it rightly. However, you didn't. The illustration is not intended to be an allegory where each thing is assigned meaning. It is intended to communicate a big picture, that both things are necesssary.

No, you are not hearing me right .... still. Belief is not the effect of salvation. It is the result of regeneration or effectual calling, and results in salvation.

It's not. It's historic orthodoxy.

Nope, not really ... Not conditional like you believe.