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California law barring parents from 'curing' gay children moves through legislature
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
Gah. It's becoming illegal to even try to help someone. On controversial topics, including those involved in scientific debate, we should be more cautious about new laws. People often say, concerning homosexuality, "Why should it bother me? Who is it hurting?" Well, here is a concrete example: taking away parents rights due to political correctness.
The problem is that we are being told that homosexuality does not need a cure, and that they don't need help. Of course, if the parents can help their children to see their need for a Saviour (as we all need), the Holy Spirit will take care of any needed "cure". One thing I have found is that I can't even THINK about sinning without being convicted by the Holy Spirit.
So, instead of concentrating on the sins of a sinner, concentrate on their need for the Saviour and point them to Him instead of pointing out their sin to them. Unsaved people sin by nature, but as a born again child of God we have a new nature in us; we are a new creature in Christ. That doesn't mean we immediately become sinless since we still have our sin nature, but we can sin less.
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Just think,however, of those MORAL parents who aren't Christians --!!??
The problem though brother Marc is that you cannot enter the Kingdom or be born again if your not willing to let that go"repent". So to ignore the sin and say come on in and don't worry about that is not the whole truth. So if we are to be like good little citizens and don't stand up and say "that is indeed a sin" then we play into their scheme and paint a gate thats wide.
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Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
A legitimate ??
Since we know that salvation is secure for eternity (most of us here on the BB would probably believe that) where does that leave, or how does it "factor in" to cases involving popular"Christian" Musicians like Ray Boltz or Marsha Stevens who professed to be saved long before they ever professed to be "gay"? Have they "lost" their salvation (and I don't believe that anyone truly saved can) or were they never truly saved in the 1st place? I know this is not for us to judge but this sin is just so abominable. How could they possibly go there in light of what the Bible says and still call themselves practicing Christians. Makes no sense to me......you have to ignore what the Bible clearly says and teaches.
Bro.Greg
Since we know that salvation is secure for eternity (most of us here on the BB would probably believe that) where does that leave, or how does it "factor in" to cases involving popular"Christian" Musicians like Ray Boltz or Marsha Stevens who professed to be saved long before they ever professed to be "gay"? Have they "lost" their salvation (and I don't believe that anyone truly saved can) or were they never truly saved in the 1st place? I know this is not for us to judge but this sin is just so abominable. How could they possibly go there in light of what the Bible says and still call themselves practicing Christians. Makes no sense to me......you have to ignore what the Bible clearly says and teaches.
Bro.Greg
Howdy Bro Greg! Well I think you answerd the question if they can justify that life style then I believe scripture would say they were lost from the beginning.....not a loose of salvation.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Well...Here we go.....!
Jedi...I don't disagree with you but it does kinda open the old "Is it REALLY possible to BACKSLIDE "Biblically"" can of worms. It gets personal for me cause I went through a messy divorce (which I neither initiated or believe in from a Biblical standpoint) which resulted in me getting spiritually de-railed for almost 15 years. I never stopped "believing",but I fell apart completely and wound up living in far deeper sin than I had ever done before I professed faith in Christ. I have struggled with many doubts in my life because of these kind of things. This is probably a dangerous thing to divulge on a public board like this but the truth is the truth and I'm determined to confront it in my life so I can be better armed for battle. I'm back now....I do love the Lord but I'll always wonder what might have been if I had stayed faithful the 1st time.
On a seperate note....in your opinion....after these people "fall".... should we continue to use the music they wrote and performed? I love that song that Ray Boltz wrote that goes..."Thank you for giving to the Lord...I am a life that was saved..." ( I think that's how it goes). I just think it is a real tragedy when the devil is able to publically destroy a testimony for Christ.
Bro.Greg:tear:
Jedi...I don't disagree with you but it does kinda open the old "Is it REALLY possible to BACKSLIDE "Biblically"" can of worms. It gets personal for me cause I went through a messy divorce (which I neither initiated or believe in from a Biblical standpoint) which resulted in me getting spiritually de-railed for almost 15 years. I never stopped "believing",but I fell apart completely and wound up living in far deeper sin than I had ever done before I professed faith in Christ. I have struggled with many doubts in my life because of these kind of things. This is probably a dangerous thing to divulge on a public board like this but the truth is the truth and I'm determined to confront it in my life so I can be better armed for battle. I'm back now....I do love the Lord but I'll always wonder what might have been if I had stayed faithful the 1st time.
On a seperate note....in your opinion....after these people "fall".... should we continue to use the music they wrote and performed? I love that song that Ray Boltz wrote that goes..."Thank you for giving to the Lord...I am a life that was saved..." ( I think that's how it goes). I just think it is a real tragedy when the devil is able to publically destroy a testimony for Christ.
Bro.Greg:tear:
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gators_2006
New Member
Before it is over with, it will be illegal for anyone, including the parent, to raise their children. Don't you know it's the government's responsibility. All you have to do is give birth (if the government birth control don't work) and then sit back, let the gov raise them while you collect a check.
:BangHead: Where are we heading as a nation?:BangHead:
:BangHead: Where are we heading as a nation?:BangHead:
Well like my ol Pastor would say "the most miserable person in the world is a backslidden Christian".
Hey, Welcome to Cereal Land
California has often been called the land of "fruits, nuts and flakes." Now you understand why! :thumbsup:
This state is showing its pro-gay stripes with each legislative bill they pass. First, it was adding "gays" who had an impact on history to our school history books. Then it was having teachers instruct their classes that it is acceptable for students in their classroom to have same-sex partners.
Then the California Supreme court tossed out the marriage law stating marriage should be only between a man and a woman. [this was after a successful vote to make marriage between same-sex partners, something other than a marriage].
It is really :tear::tear: out here!
California has often been called the land of "fruits, nuts and flakes." Now you understand why! :thumbsup:
This state is showing its pro-gay stripes with each legislative bill they pass. First, it was adding "gays" who had an impact on history to our school history books. Then it was having teachers instruct their classes that it is acceptable for students in their classroom to have same-sex partners.
Then the California Supreme court tossed out the marriage law stating marriage should be only between a man and a woman. [this was after a successful vote to make marriage between same-sex partners, something other than a marriage].
It is really :tear::tear: out here!
I have a good friend in Christ who is on deputation to plant a church
in Orange County. Pray for Nick Reed and his family as they try to
bring Christ to lost Californians.
Debbie Mc
Ryan.Samples
New Member
The operative distinction is whether backslidden (that's not even a word, right? Correct term...?) means a loss of salvation or a period of disobedience that doesn't equal lost salvation. It seems to me that Paul tells us in Romans 7-8 that it is possible for Christians to sin after an experience of salvation (though I am sure some debate whether that is what Paul actually says therein). If we attempt to assert that any Christian who sins loses his salvation, then I lose my on pretty much a daily basis and I am fortunate to see it restored again as I repent. That point of view seems a bit precarious to me.
But if we say that to backslide is different that to lose one's salvation, well of course that is a different matter. The Christian who finds himself entangled in sin invites God's correction--the very notion of which should lead us to stop sinning... But what do we say of the man who never stops such sin? I don't know. Your testimony is that for a long season of your life you willfully disobeyed God, yet you never stopped believing. Di the Spirit testify to you at this time that you were a child of God?
This entire matter is such a significant issue and it is important to hash out, so I am thankful you broached the topic. I know a young lady who claims the name of Christ but as long as I have known her she has been a practicing lesbian. How can this be? Was she saved when she was a practicing lesbian? Was she saved before she adopted this lifestyle? In her case I do not know, as we aren't that close. But is there a difference between a professing Christian who sins by homosexual conduct, a Christian who sins by viewing pornography, a Christian who sins by alcohol abuse (this is not an invitation for anyone to debate whether a man sins by drinking any alcohol period; let's not get derailed), and a Christian who sins by murdering a man? Is our salvation secure so long as we don't commit sin X? I Cor 6:9-10 offers a list of sinful lifestyles, the practitioners of which will not inherit God's kingdom. What does that mean? Drunkards will not get saved? Is Paul making a blunt statement (these folks WILL NOT be saved) or is he offering a Mark 10:26-7 kind of dynamic (where such people cannot be saved, yet with God all things are possible)?
Paul in I Cor 5 directs the church to expel a brother (Christian) engaged in sexual immorality. Paul orders the man's expulsion to punish him, to demonstrate the severity of his sinful behavior. But do we see Paul claiming the man is unsaved? What are the implications we draw from this passage? Clearly we see that if we have a Christian known to engage in an ungodly lifestyle we are to rebuke him (the Matthew 18:15-17 discipline progression applies here, I am sure) and cast him from the fellowship. But what is his spiritual state at this time? Disobedient? Yes? Unsaved? That is the question... I don't see any indication that he is unsaved.
What do you guys and gals think?
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
I'm Just Going To Watch..
Ryan, Thank you for your very thoughtful response to my post. For the moment I am going to sit back and watch to see what kind of responses this discussion attracts just because I'd like to see the exchange of ideas about it. I will respond further and talk to you some a bit later. I will say this....I don't believe that salvation can ever be lost once it is truly obtained. I am a firm believer that the Bible does teach the Eternal Security of the believer.
Bro.Greg
Ryan, Thank you for your very thoughtful response to my post. For the moment I am going to sit back and watch to see what kind of responses this discussion attracts just because I'd like to see the exchange of ideas about it. I will respond further and talk to you some a bit later. I will say this....I don't believe that salvation can ever be lost once it is truly obtained. I am a firm believer that the Bible does teach the Eternal Security of the believer.
Bro.Greg
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Bob Alkire
New Member
My view come from much of what I was taught as a child and in school and from watching people for many years and looking into the mirror at the one who I shave every morning.
I believe a Christian out of fellowship can look to the rest of the world and Christians as lost as a lost person. We can impersonate a lost person so well, we look as lost as lost can be. I've seen folks go through this for 30 years or more.
I've talk to many who said they knew what they were doing or their actions were wrong but did it any way, but didn't get the enjoyment out of it most times the next day, if they got anything it was guilt, but only when they thought about it.
Many pastors who have my point of view will point out David and his actions and the pastors who disagree will say David didn't have the Holy Spirit in them. But keep in mind with all of David's faults, he was man after God heart.
I've looked at the world around me and I see the same thing in a way as David. I've seen pastors, good Christian men and women do thing that are hard to believe. I've seen many when they get out of prison be a good Christian from there on.
It is great that God can forgive us even if a lot of Christians won't. His grace isn't a reason to sin but many of us fall or get in a bad place in our lives where we make bad decisions rather than pray and wait for His answer.
