Well maybe Brother Pinoy is "Hyper" about something after all (joking P, ya know I loves ya):love2:
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Cals: A Majority to be Saved?
- Thread starter humblethinker
- Start date
Well maybe Brother Pinoy is "Hyper" about something after all (joking P, ya know I loves ya):love2:
But Tim/Pinoy preaches & teaches!
When I was baptized into the RCC as an infant there was no ability on my part. The RCC calls that the new birth. There was no input from me. :smilewinkgrin:
Robert Snow
New Member
The reason you don't agree with him because what he presents here is not Gospel. It's some amalgamation of bible verses, hyper-calvinistic doctrine and pure fantasy.
Acts 4:12 (KJV)
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
The gospel that he preaches is not for salvation though. He believes that people are saved (not elect) before the foundation of the world. The gospel is preached only to let the already saved know they are saved, because up until that point they are not aware of it.
I'm late to the game here, so please forgive me addressing this now; but here's an analogy for you:
I have two children. Both have left the house. One calls, and talks, and tells me what's going on in their life; the other, I find out, tells others lies about me, and basically is doing everything I taught them not to do.
(this is not a true analogy, btw)
Although my momma taught me it's rude to answer a question with a question, I'm going to do it to you: When do I stop loving child #2?
No, Amy, you don't know what I really believe, and I mean no disrespect.
Thank you for saying you love me.
I appreciate that.
I do not believe the gospel is to be preached to get people ETERNALLY saved or redeemed.
Here is what I believe about the gospel, in the words of Paul to Timothy:
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began , But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
Eternal life and grace is already possessed by each child of God, whoever he is, wherever he is, whatever his circumstances in life. This was given to him in Christ Jesus before the world began and that fact was made MANIFEST (shown, revealed) by the coming of Christ who abolished death (this is why I believe hell never was and never is the destiny of any child of God. For His people He saved them from death: we look forward to eternal life with Christ in His kingdom in eternity future).
The gospel brings life and immortality to light, it is not the cause and the reason for one's eternal life.
Christ is.
And that eternal life, that grace, was FREELY given, to all His people, a gift, undeserved.
That is what I believe about the gospel.
If I preach it at all, I preach it to give glory to Christ for my, and others', undeserved redemption, and not to give His glory to a gospel.
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Sure because only by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit can eternal life be brought to the dead sinner (John 3 : 6-8) .The gospel brings life and immortality to light, but doesn't produce life (2 Tim.1: 10). Thats Scriptural.
LOL, are you trying to figure it out? Not sure?
humblethinker
Active Member
Calvinists, please address the OP.
Noncalvinists, please don't distract them.
Noncalvinists, please don't distract them.
More appropriately....Do you love them the same? Maybe better analogy....Child #1 & # 2 ....both your creations & like you said one is Extremely Good & one is Extremely Bad the house catches fire & you rescue (save Child 1) but you do NOT save Child 2 .....do you love them the same? Is love that does not save classify as love? I dont know, you decide.....but the given is we really dont know for sure, one way or the other because we are putting words in Gods mouth, trying to understand His mind.
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You're close to where I was going with this. In the original analogy, one continues to treat you with love and respect; the other denies you. Both come to you asking to be let back into the house; which one do you you deny?
Most of us would probably say we wouldn't allow the second child back in the house; but is that because we don't love them?
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And going with your analogy: Do you not save child #2 from the fire because you don't love them? If so, then you have a very conditional form of love, don't you?
And in my limited mental capacity seems like a complete opposite of "unconditional election."
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This is an incorrectly put statement. Scripture tells us that He died that the world might be saved; however, this is *not* meant to imply that everyone will go to heaven. I can buy tickets for everyone on the train; but some folks will refuse to accept my charity, and prefer to buy the ticket themselves. Same concept applies here.
Discussable; only believers receive His grace. The concept of God applying His grace to only some is what's in question; some prefer to think of it as "God offers His grace to all, but only some receive it."
Again, incorrectly put with regards to "powerless to thwart man's will." Best example is the rich young ruler who Jesus told to give away all that he owned, but he turned away; Jesus wasn't powerless to thwart this man's rejection, but He allowed the man to walk away.
None of them. See notes above.
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Great post Don. Jesus directly promised the young rich ruler if he would sell his possessions and come follow him, he would have treasure in heaven. It says the young man went away sorrowful, and the scriptures tell us WHY he went away sorrowful. Not because he was unable to do what Jesus told him, but because he had great possessions. He loved his wealth, prestige, and power and was not willing to give them up for a "promise" of greater treasure in eternity.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
None of God's purposes, plans, or ends will disappoint a true believer.
They will instead, say with the angels, "Holy, Holy, Holy."
Only those who dislike His purpose in election, and, hold indignation towards His purpose, which is mans alleged "freewill," and, those who seek to deny His omniscience and Sovereignty, these will have a problem with this which you've stated.
These will instead shout; "Unfair, Unfair, Unfair" to no avail.
- Peace
humblethinker
Active Member
Thank you for your reply. I take it that you don't believe that a majority is elected and that regardless you do not have a preference other than what God has chosen. If I am correctly understanding you then yours seems to be the more consistent opinion in relation to your belief of Calvinism.
I'm wondering if it is the case that a motivation for some Calvinists to believe that a majority of souls will be saved has to do with their view of the character of God. I don't see why either a majority or a minority would make a difference, except that if it IS a majority that has been elected then it might seem that God is more gracious than He would have been had he only elected a minority.
This is only what I can seem to reason and, knowing that I could well be incorrect, I'd like to get some feedback from those Calvinists that hold to the idea that God has selected a majority. What are the scriptural and philosophical reasons for believing such?
There is a fixed number of men and angels elected. It is the perfect number.
No one in heaven will question God's wisdom and choice.
Some post-mill cals make a case for a majority...believing the earth will go on for a long time...in other words....we are still the early church.:thumbs:
We know there will be more elect than the stars in the heavens....as was told to Abraham.
humblethinker
Active Member
Ok, but not counting the angels, do you think there will be a majority of humans elected? Also not counting the angels, do you think there will be more elect humans than the stars in the heavens?