Calvin and Heros of the Reformation

[saturneptune]

Lets try a thread on Calvin from a different angle, and I could learn a lot. Knox, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and others were great leaders of the Reformation. Why does Calvin stand out among the rest? Is it just the doctrines of grace and sovereignty, like some of the others believed, or is there something else?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Lets try a thread on Calvin from a different angle, and I could learn a lot. Knox, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and others were great leaders of the Reformation. Why does Calvin stand out among the rest? Is it just the doctrines of grace and sovereignty, like some of the others believed, or is there something else?

I think this is interesting. I for one would like to hear the answers to the question, which by the way is a good question. Why is Calvin standing out among the rest of the Reformers ?

I googled John Knox, and came on this item in his Scot Confession:

Chapter 16 - the KIRK....
As we believe in one God, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, so we firmly believe that from the beginning there has been, now is, and to the end of the world shall be, one Kirk, that is to say, one company and multitude of men chosen by God, who rightly worship and embrace him by true faith in Jesus Christ, who is the only Head of the Kirk, even as it is the body and spouse of Christ Jesus. This Kirk is catholic, that is, universal, because it contains the chosen of all ages, of all realms, nations, and tongues, be they of the Jews or be they of the Gentiles, who have communion and society with God the Father, and with his Son, Christ Jesus, through the sanctification of his Holy Spirit. It is therefore called the communion, not of profane persons, but of saints, who, as citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem, have the fruit of inestimable benefits, one God, one Lord Jesus, one faith, and one baptism. Out of this Kirk there is neither life nor eternal felicity. Therefore we utterly abhor the blasphemy of those who hold that men who live according to equity and justice shall be saved, no matter what religion they profess. For since there is neither life nor salvation without Christ Jesus; so shall none have part therein but those whom the Father has given unto his Son Christ Jesus, and those who in time come to him, avow his doctrine, and believe in him. (We include the children with the believing parents.) This Kirk is invisible, known only to God, who alone knows whom he has chosen, and includes both the chosen who are departed, the Kirk triumphant, those who yet live and fight against sin and Satan, and those who shall live hereafter.

interesting. comes a little but not quite close to what I as a PB believe.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

Knox was obviously a Trekie.

Calvin moved to Switzerland.

Case closed. :laugh:

 

[saturneptune]

Zwingli held to most of the doctrines of grace and sovereignty, sort of a forerunner to Calvin. Some of the articles say Calvin completed what he started. Zwingli believed in only practicing life style issues that were clearly in the Bible and the common person interpreting the Bible for himself.

Other articles say Zwingli and Luther agreed on very little theologically. Zwingli thought Luther was still driven by traditions of the Catholic church.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Knox was obviously a Trekie.

Calvin moved to Switzerland.

Case closed. :laugh:

What's a Trekie ?

Other articles say Zwingli and Luther agreed on very little theologically

Thjey sound like Baptists, eh wot ?

 

[npetreley]

Lets try a thread on Calvin from a different angle, and I could learn a lot. Knox, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and others were great leaders of the Reformation. Why does Calvin stand out among the rest? Is it just the doctrines of grace and sovereignty, like some of the others believed, or is there something else?

I think it was R. C. Sproul (or Jr.) who wrote that Calvin was little more than a footnote to Luther on the doctrines of grace.

 

[Bro. Williams]

Murdering someone always gets you famous to a degree, especially when it is public execution.

 

[webdog]

Zwingli held to most of the doctrines of grace and sovereignty, sort of a forerunner to Calvin. Some of the articles say Calvin completed what he started. Zwingli believed in only practicing life style issues that were clearly in the Bible and the common person interpreting the Bible for himself.

Other articles say Zwingli and Luther agreed on very little theologically. Zwingli thought Luther was still driven by traditions of the Catholic church.

Is it just me, or does zwingliism not sound right? I'm glad it's called calvinism and not zwingliism.

 

[skypair]

Lets try a thread on Calvin from a different angle, and I could learn a lot. Knox, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and others were great leaders of the Reformation. Why does Calvin stand out among the rest? Is it just the doctrines of grace and sovereignty, like some of the others believed, or is there something else?

Here's a related "press to test" --- where are the Reform martyrs for their faith??

skypair

 

[saturneptune]

Here's a related "press to test" --- where are the Reform martyrs for their faith??

skypair

Well, since I do not have the gift of Divine insight as some here seem to have, I do not know for sure. My guess is that they are with the Lord.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Lets try a thread on Calvin from a different angle, and I could learn a lot. Knox, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and others were great leaders of the Reformation. Why does Calvin stand out among the rest? Is it just the doctrines of grace and sovereignty, like some of the others believed, or is there something else?

I've been doing a little reading up on Calvin, the Reformation, and other reformers.

For now, what I can see, or deduce, is that there was a confluence of events that favored Calvin, historically.

1. There was a growing disenchantment with the Roman Catholic church so that "Reformers", those who want to reform the Catholic church from within, although not ruling out breaking away from it, were scattered all over Europe;

2. While Zwingle and others were equally as known as Calvin, for the most part, these were theologians (Calvin was a lawyer by training, I believe) who had no wish or were not inclined to a theocracy. Zwingle, I understand, believed more on letting the individual interpret Scripture for himself and obey Scripture according to his interpretation of it;

3. Calvin, because of a war going on (isn't humanity always at war ?) detoured to Geneva, and Geneva, was considered the strongest bastion of Protestantism in his time. While initially failing to set up a theocracy, when the Libertines got out of power, Calvin and his group came into power, and proceded to set up his theocratic rule, marrying state and church, and Geneva being a sort of "center" for things spiritual and intellectual, with people coming and going from everywhere, and Calvin being a prolific writer, and well known preacher, he quickly became popular, and his theology brought out from Geneva.

4. Going back to google now.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Murdering someone always gets you famous to a degree, especially when it is public execution.

Not this again...

 

[saturneptune]

Not this again...

RB,
I agree with you this time. The whole purpose of this thread is to examine why Calvin stood out among the other Reformers. It is not about Calvinism or the free will thing. For instance, Calvin was much more interested in reforming society than Zwingli. It appears that Calvin took some of Zwingli's ideas and put them into practice.

 

[skypair]

Well, since I do not have the gift of Divine insight as some here seem to have, I do not know for sure. My guess is that they are with the Lord.

My real question was "ARE THERE ANY?" I mean, besides Servinus? Oh, that's right. He was slain by Calvinists. :tear:

skypair

 

[saturneptune]

Moderators, please close this thread. I should have known better.

Skypair, you are about the same caliber as the two on the other side. There is no difference. You are here merely to stir the pot.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Closed on request