John Gilmore
New Member
What is the Lutheran view of scripture that makes this idea OK? (And what's the difference between "new" Lutherans and "old" ones?)</font>[/QUOTE]The "old" Lutherans would be the ones that produced the Augsberg Confession, 1530 (Luther, Melanchthon, etc.). The "new" Lutherans would be the ones who produced the Formula of Concord, 1580 (Chemnitz, Andreae, etc.). The doctrine of Calvin was not formally addressed until the Formula.Originally posted by Bartholomew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John Gilmore:
In 1580, the (new) Lutherans affirmed election to grace but rejected election to damnation. This is, of course, illogical but consistent with their view of scripture.
Lutherans never devised a comprehensive system of theology of their own such as Calvinism or Arminianism. They were content to evaluate the theological systems of others according to the rule of sola scriptura.
Their rule of sola scriptura meant that human reasoning should be subordinated to scripture not the other way around. Where this led to apparent inconsistencies, they confessed, "How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! "(Rom. 11:33). Hence they could say in the Formula,
"The eternal election of God, however, vel praedestinatio (or predestination), that is, God's ordination to salvation, does not extend at once over the godly and the wicked, but only over the children of God, who were elected and ordained to eternal life before the foundation of the world was laid, as Paul says, Eph. 1, 4. 5: He hath chosen us in Him, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ."
So am I right in thinking they believed that God chose certian people to be saved, but that they never-the-less had the option of rejecting that salvation, or losing it? It seems to me that the simplistic "Calvinism = Protestant, Arminianism = Catholic" equation told to me by Calvinists should be consigned to the rubbish bin!So, after 1580, they were not really in either the Calvinist or Arminian camp.
No! The Formula rejected free will (man is not free to do good or evil) as had the Smalcald Articles written by Luther in 1537. Men are lost because they stubbornly reject the gospel, not because they are predestined to damnation. This is another inconsistency that the Lutheran Church happily admits to. You are right; the issues are very complex.
[ June 24, 2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]