Calvin on Regeneration

[steaver]

I found this in my research......

Calvin on Regeneration from His Commentary on John

by John Calvin


John 1: 13. The will of the flesh and the will of man appear to me to mean the same thing; for I see no reason why flesh should be supposed to signify woman, as Augustine and many others explain it. On the contrary, the Evangelist repeats the same thing in a variety of words, in order to explain it more fully, and impress it more deeply on the minds of men. Though he refers directly to the Jews, who gloried in the flesh, yet from this passage a general doctrine may be obtained: that our being reckoned the sons of God does not belong to our nature, and does not proceed from us, but because God begat us willingly, (James 1:18,) that is, from undeserved love. Hence it follows, first, that faith does not proceed from ourselves, but is the fruit of spiritual regeneration; for the Evangelist affirms that no man can believe, unless he be begotten of God; and therefore faith is a heavenly gift. It follows, secondly, that faith is not bare or cold knowledge, since no man can believe who has not been renewed by the Spirit of God. http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/calvinregeneration.html

So according to John Calvin's own beliefs, he believed that regeneration had to precede faith. So if one adhers to Calvinism, then one must agree with the one who is responsible for Calvinism, otherwise they are not true Calvinist.

So my friend who believes he is a Calvinist must not really know where Calvinist stand on regeneration, for my friend says he believes as the scripture states that regeneration was not part of the OT saints lives, and that would bring into light a problem for Calvinist, between OT salvation and NT salvation, and we know that it must be the same, through faith, apart from the regeneration of the New Covenant which was implemented after Jesus Christ was glorified.

This clears things up a bit. I believe there are professing Calvinist who don't really understand that to be a true Calvinist one must believe as the founder of Calvinism believed, that the rebirth was part of the justification through faith in the OT saints as well as in the NT saints. Scripture is clear, this was not the case. Thus, Calvinism crumbles at the very foundation, for the strength of TULIP is in it's position on regeneration, which has all saints reborn unto salvation. We find this is not true, and thus, TULIP wilts and dies.

 

[Jerome]

In his book Theology of the Reformers (Nashville: Broadman, 1988, p. 225) 'Founders' bigwig and seminary president Timothy George states:

This being placed into Christ (insitio in Christo) occurs in regeneration which, Calvin was careful to point out, follows from faith as its result

 

[saturneptune]

Ok, it seems you are saying what my friend is saying, that regeneration came only after the cross. I thought TULIP believers on the board here have said that OT saints were regenerated even before Christ died on the cross?? I know one did, can't remember which one, but i remember him saying that Abraham was a regenerated believer when he lived here on earth.

One of the problems your question poses is that you are putting God in a box of the element of time. We live bound by time and space, but God does not. Therefore, the question, does regeneration happen after the glorification of Jesus Christ is meaningless. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, some 2000 years before the cross. Our problem with Scripture always starts by making wrong assumptions about the nature of God based on our flawed and finite minds.

Doctrines of Grace are some of the best set of principles in the Bible towards understanding the Lord. However, I would not walk, but run away from the name Calvin. His life did not reflect his writings or his character worthy of such an honor.

 

[steaver]

In his book Theology of the Reformers (Nashville: Broadman, 1988, p. 225) 'Founders' bigwig and seminary president Timothy George states:This being placed into Christ (insitio in Christo) occurs in regeneration which, Calvin was careful to point out, follows from faith as its result

It seems George hasn't read Calvin's actual writings. Unless the site I found is made up. So who is lying here???

 

[steaver]

One of the problems your question poses is that you are putting God in a box of the element of time. We live bound by time and space, but God does not. Therefore, the question, does regeneration happen after the glorification of Jesus Christ is meaningless. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, some 2000 years before the cross. Our problem with Scripture always starts by making wrong assumptions about the nature of God based on our flawed and finite minds.

Doctrines of Grace are some of the best set of principles in the Bible towards understanding the Lord. However, I would not walk, but run away from the name Calvin. His life did not reflect his writings or his character worthy of such an honor.

Everybody likes to use the "God in a box" argument. The scripture is quite clear on regeneration and when it was implemented.

Let me ask you.....what must I do to be saved?

 

[saturneptune]

Everybody likes to use the "God in a box" argument. The scripture is quite clear on regeneration and when it was implemented.

Let me ask you.....what must I do to be saved?

If you accept that God is bound by time, then how do you explain the Lord's encounter with Abraham in Genesis? Since God is bound by time, did he put his regeneration in suspended annimation for 2000 years?

What must I do to be saved? Since it all the work of the Lord, the answer is nothing. What did you do at Christmas last year to receive a gift? The regeneration is a gift of God, the faith is a gift of God, salvation is a gift of God, and eternal life is a gift of God. Entire demominations have been started on what man has "to do." You know, like I have to be baptised to be saved. I have to walk the aisle to be saved. I have to say the sinners prayer to be saved. Maybe you can start a new one.

 

[steaver]

If you accept that God is bound by time, then how do you explain the Lord's encounter with Abraham in Genesis? Since God is bound by time, did he put his regeneration in suspended annimation for 2000 years?

What must I do to be saved? Since it all the work of the Lord, the answer is nothing. What did you do at Christmas last year to receive a gift? The regeneration is a gift of God, the faith is a gift of God, salvation is a gift of God, and eternal life is a gift of God. Entire demominations have been started on what man has "to do." You know, like I have to be baptised to be saved. I have to walk the aisle to be saved. I have to say the sinners prayer to be saved. Maybe you can start a new one.

No one accepts that God is bound by time, but God has chosen to bind Himself by His Word. God implements His decrees in His own time that He chooses.

I do remember something to that effect being spoken when the Apostles were asked the same question....

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, there is nothing you can do, it is up to God to save you if He chooses to do so, and then thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Acts 16:30-31)

 

[Winman]

No one accepts that God is bound by time, but God has chosen to bind Himself by His Word. God implements His decrees in His own time that He chooses.

I do remember something to that effect being spoken when the Apostles were asked the same question....

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, there is nothing you can do, it is up to God to save you if He chooses to do so, and then thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Acts 16:30-31)

Yep, ever get the impression that Calvinists do not want people to believe? They teach it is a work to believe or to call on Jesus to save us. They try to discourage people from believing or calling on Jesus.

 

[saturneptune]

No one accepts that God is bound by time, but God has chosen to bind Himself by His Word. God implements His decrees in His own time that He chooses.

I do remember something to that effect being spoken when the Apostles were asked the same question....

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, there is nothing you can do, it is up to God to save you if He chooses to do so, and then thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Acts 16:30-31)

You are quite amusing. You should go on the Arminian comedy channel with your show. We both know what the verse says, to believe and you shall be saved. So tell me, why would he believe? Oh I know, he just woke up one morning and said, "gee, what a great day to be saved." Duh

 

[saturneptune]

Yep, ever get the impression that Calvinists do not want people to believe? They teach it is a work to believe or to call on Jesus to save us. They try to discourage people from believing or calling on Jesus.

First of all, I am not a Calvinist. I have spent many posts on why this name does not deserve a title for anything, including dog catcher. Secondly, those who believe in Doctrines of Grace do not teach it is a work to call on the Lord. That is called a smoke and mirrors conclusion. The question is, what motivated them to call on the name of the Lord. A final point, I do not discourage anyone from believing in Jesus. In fact, if you care to compare what we both do for outreach, visitation, or missions, I would be glad to start another thread.

 

[Winman]

First of all, I am not a Calvinist. I have spent many posts on why this name does not deserve a title for anything, including dog catcher. Secondly, those who believe in Doctrines of Grace do not teach it is a work to call on the Lord. That is called a smoke and mirrors conclusion. The question is, what motivated them to call on the name of the Lord. A final point, I do not discourage anyone from believing in Jesus. In fact, if you care to compare what we both do for outreach, visitation, or missions, I would be glad to start another thread.

Here are your very words;

You know, like I have to be baptised to be saved. I have to walk the aisle to be saved. I have to say the sinners prayer to be saved. Maybe you can start a new one.

You talk in a derogatory manner about folks who walk the aisle to be saved, to those who pray the sinner's prayer. But Jesus himself showed a man who walked in to be saved and who prayed the sinner's prayer.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

No one dragged the publican into the temple, he went up to pray of himself. He did not boast of any good works like the Pharisee, but simply cried out for God to have mercy on him. If this is not the sinner's prayer I do not know what is. And Jesus said this publican went down to his house justified, all his sins forgiven. Jesus did not seem to have a problem with the publican coming in of his own accord and asking God to forgive him as you Reformed/Calvinists seem to have, Jesus did not accuse him of trying to work his way to heaven or trying to save himself as you folks would accuse him.

The prodigal son did the same, the scriptures say he "came to himself". The scriptures said he would go to his father and ask for mercy, to be made a simple servant. Again, he was accepted by his father and made a son, he was not accused of trying to work his way to heaven or trying to save himself.

You don't get it, Jesus said, COME UNTO ME. You can't sit back and do nothing, that is the sure way to die lost. No, you must obey Jesus and come to him in your heart as he commanded. He is not going to condemn you for doing the very thing he commanded you to do.

 

[steaver]

You are quite amusing. You should go on the Arminian comedy channel with your show. We both know what the verse says, to believe and you shall be saved. So tell me, why would he believe? Oh I know, he just woke up one morning and said, "gee, what a great day to be saved." Duh

Actually, he did wake up one morning, but what woke him was the power of God shaking the jail to pieces. He realized that these men who have been preaching about God and salvation obviously have the power of God on their side.

So what does the jailer say? Does he say "Sirs, I believe Jesus is the Christ!!!!!". No, he says "Sirs, what must I do to be saved". And the Apostles (whom according to UE teaching should surely have known the answer is "you can do nothing") but that isn't the answer given, instead said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved".

What must I do? Answer; believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[saturneptune]

Actually, he did wake up one morning, but what woke him was the power of God shaking the jail to pieces. He realized that these men who have been preaching about God and salvation obviously have the power of God on their side.

So what does the jailer say? Does he say "Sirs, I believe Jesus is the Christ!!!!!". No, he says "Sirs, what must I do to be saved". And the Apostles (whom according to UE teaching should surely have known the answer is "you can do nothing") but that isn't the answer given, instead said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved".

What must I do? Answer; believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you want to say something to "do" whatever. The fact remains, he did something because the Lord interjected righteousness into his life.

 

[steaver]

Paul in his letter to the Romans gives an example that we may look to, to give us encouragement and an example of who is justified by God and who is not. Speaking of Abraham, Paul writes;

"He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness." (Ro 4)

So what can we learn from this passage?

Abraham was "strong in faith"

Abraham was "fully persuaded" that what God had promised, God was able to perform.

"And therefore it (Abraham's faith) was imputed to him for righteousness"

This is the unadultered message given in the scriptures. What must I do to be justified? Believe!!!

Now what must the UE camp say or do to this passage? They must say to Paul, "so what?" So what if Abraham had strong faith? So what if Abraham was persuaded in God's promises? Abraham had nothing to do with his faith, it was the gift of God, so why are you giving us an example Paul of a man's faith as if it should inspire us to have faith!!!

 

[steaver]

If you want to say something to "do" whatever. The fact remains, he did something because the Lord interjected righteousness into his life.

Brother, did I say there is something to "do" ? Or did the scripture say that?

 

[steaver]

"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in [their] heart; and they have not known my ways.

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. " (Heb 3)

Why all the warnings against unbelief? According to UE teaching all these warnings are meaningless.

"If we hold fast" ?

"Harden not your hearts" ?

"Take heed" against an unbelieving heart ?

So what? UE says there is nothing one can do, so why is this writer wasting so much time on warning people about unbelief???

 

[Yeshua1]

I found this in my research......

Calvin on Regeneration from His Commentary on John

by John Calvin


John 1: 13. The will of the flesh and the will of man appear to me to mean the same thing; for I see no reason why flesh should be supposed to signify woman, as Augustine and many others explain it. On the contrary, the Evangelist repeats the same thing in a variety of words, in order to explain it more fully, and impress it more deeply on the minds of men. Though he refers directly to the Jews, who gloried in the flesh, yet from this passage a general doctrine may be obtained: that our being reckoned the sons of God does not belong to our nature, and does not proceed from us, but because God begat us willingly, (James 1:18,) that is, from undeserved love. Hence it follows, first, that faith does not proceed from ourselves, but is the fruit of spiritual regeneration; for the Evangelist affirms that no man can believe, unless he be begotten of God; and therefore faith is a heavenly gift. It follows, secondly, that faith is not bare or cold knowledge, since no man can believe who has not been renewed by the Spirit of God. http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/calvinregeneration.html

So according to John Calvin's own beliefs, he believed that regeneration had to precede faith. So if one adhers to Calvinism, then one must agree with the one who is responsible for Calvinism, otherwise they are not true Calvinist.

So my friend who believes he is a Calvinist must not really know where Calvinist stand on regeneration, for my friend says he believes as the scripture states that regeneration was not part of the OT saints lives, and that would bring into light a problem for Calvinist, between OT salvation and NT salvation, and we know that it must be the same, through faith, apart from the regeneration of the New Covenant which was implemented after Jesus Christ was glorified.

This clears things up a bit. I believe there are professing Calvinist who don't really understand that to be a true Calvinist one must believe as the founder of Calvinism believed, that the rebirth was part of the justification through faith in the OT saints as well as in the NT saints. Scripture is clear, this was not the case. Thus, Calvinism crumbles at the very foundation, for the strength of TULIP is in it's position on regeneration, which has all saints reborn unto salvation. We find this is not true, and thus, TULIP wilts and dies.

Actually, John Calvin was NOT the founder of calvinism as a theological system, as THAT came later on after him, so would be more accurate to see him as laying down some of th eprinciples, but those following him developed it into the system known today as reformed calvinism, and more precisouly, as the presbertarian version of it!

And reformed calvinists that would see this OT as he would, see the NT as being another version. addition to the Old covenant, so would indeed see the Church as being in the OT, as the NT would just be expanding it out to include gentiles saved thru faith now also!

Presbartarian reformed calvinists see this different than baptist ones!

 

[moral necessity]

is Calvin saying though that OT/NT have SAME Holy spirit in same fashion, or that the OT had but a shadow of the fulness that we have now since death/raising of christ?

Well, from my readings of Calvin, he emphasizes that there is but one covenant, of which Abraham is the model. The OT people looked forward to him; we, however, look back to him. But, its the same method and manner of salvation by the Spirit in both testaments.

See Institutes Book II of Institutes. Ch.9 alludes to it: "...Abraham is said to have seen Christ's day and to have rejoiced (Jn.8:56). Even if the sight of something far off was rather indistinct, Abraham nevertheless had assurance of good hope. From this came that joyousness which accompanied the holy patriarch even to his death. And John the Baptist's statement - 'No one has ever seen God; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, hath made him known' (Jn.1:18) - does not exclude the pious who died before Christ from the fellowship of the understanding and light that shine in the person of Christ. But, by comparing their lot with ours, he teaches that those mysteries which they but glimpsed in shadowed outline are manifest to us...For when he appeared in this, his image, he, as it were, made himself visible; whereas his appearance had before been indistinct and shadowed...Now, I take the gospel to be the clear manifestation of Christ..."

Blessings...

 

[steaver]

Well, from my readings of Calvin, he emphasizes that there is but one covenant, of which Abraham is the model. The OT people looked forward to him; we, however, look back to him. But, its the same method and manner of salvation by the Spirit in both testaments.

See Institutes Book II of Institutes. Ch.9 alludes to it: "...Abraham is said to have seen Christ's day and to have rejoiced (Jn.8:56). Even if the sight of something far off was rather indistinct, Abraham nevertheless had assurance of good hope. From this came that joyousness which accompanied the holy patriarch even to his death. And John the Baptist's statement - 'No one has ever seen God; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, hath made him known' (Jn.1:18) - does not exclude the pious who died before Christ from the fellowship of the understanding and light that shine in the person of Christ. But, by comparing their lot with ours, he teaches that those mysteries which they but glimpsed in shadowed outline are manifest to us...For when he appeared in this, his image, he, as it were, made himself visible; whereas his appearance had before been indistinct and shadowed...Now, I take the gospel to be the clear manifestation of Christ..."

Blessings...

Yes, according to the scriptures both OT saints and NT saints are saved by the New Covenant, which is "through faith". Where Calvin and TULIP believers error is when they teach that the OT saints were regenerated by the Holy Spirit prior to the glorification of Jesus Christ after His ressurrection. This is clearly unscriptural according to the gospel of John where we are specifically told that the Holy Spirit rebirth was not given until after Jesus' glorification. Jesus said the Comfortor would not come until He returned to the Father.

I believe the TULIP believers feel they need this regeneration pre-cross to be true or else the whole flower dies because TULIP teaches that God regenerates a person UNTO faith rather than what the scripture states which is THROUGH faith.

Remember, much of the NT writings are exhortations to BELIEVE and EXAMINE oneself if they are truly in Christ. What would be any reason for Paul or James or Peter to appeal to the BELIEVERS to examime themselves to make sure they are in the faith if it be true that no one can DO anything about it?! If TULIP be true, then much of the scripture would be meaningless.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well, from my readings of Calvin, he emphasizes that there is but one covenant, of which Abraham is the model. The OT people looked forward to him; we, however, look back to him. But, its the same method and manner of salvation by the Spirit in both testaments.

See Institutes Book II of Institutes. Ch.9 alludes to it: "...Abraham is said to have seen Christ's day and to have rejoiced (Jn.8:56). Even if the sight of something far off was rather indistinct, Abraham nevertheless had assurance of good hope. From this came that joyousness which accompanied the holy patriarch even to his death. And John the Baptist's statement - 'No one has ever seen God; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, hath made him known' (Jn.1:18) - does not exclude the pious who died before Christ from the fellowship of the understanding and light that shine in the person of Christ. But, by comparing their lot with ours, he teaches that those mysteries which they but glimpsed in shadowed outline are manifest to us...For when he appeared in this, his image, he, as it were, made himself visible; whereas his appearance had before been indistinct and shadowed...Now, I take the gospel to be the clear manifestation of Christ..."

Blessings...

Very good!

That is why presy/Baptist reformed saints differ on the quesion of infant baptistism, as presby reformed take lead of calvin and see the New Covenant as an addition made to onclude gentiles into isreal, while baptists reformed see it as a new Covenant...