Calvin on "total depravity"

[utilyan]

Calvin, and the Bible, did NOT state that humans are always evil and wicked sinners, but tha we canot ever do anythingby and in ourselves to merit salvation!

All Good things are God given that's no problem. I would push it even further to say you can't even sneeze without God's grace involved. The error however is accept mankind as naturally separated from God. The STANDARD of man, the example of a man is Jesus Christ. When we look at Jesus there is no "SIN NATURE". To attribute mankind as having "sin nature" would also mean Jesus Christ is not 100% human.

Nature is God determined and is GOOD. Sin is not the creator nor can it dictate nature.

If we take a stone wheel and corrupt it with a hammer it will remain a wheel to an extent but the moment it ceases to be round its not even longer a wheel the corruption has destroyed it.

Mankind's roundness if you will is the GOOD IMAGE OF GOD. The moment you say its all good is gone there is no longer a man there. There is nothing salvable its GONE there is no good.


John 3
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

In situation where there is NO GOOD to be found in the person, THEY ARE PERISHED, There cant be a situation for preventing any perishing if you already start with them dead. Jesus' statement here would be a lie.

You can't promise no one will ever get wet when at the start you already have them in the pool.

 

[MennoSota]

Excuses, excuses....

 

[MennoSota]

John 3
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

In situation where there is NO GOOD to be found in the person, THEY ARE PERISHED, There cant be a situation for preventing any perishing if you already start with them dead. Jesus' statement here would be a lie.

The whoever are the elect of God that will not perish. All others will certainly perish.

Ephesians 2:1 says we were all dead in our trespasses and sins.

We start out dead.

Verse 4 & 5 says that God made the elect spiritually alive.

I trust God on this one.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Instead of challenging my conclusion you resort to this. Extremely [edited].

 

[MennoSota]

Instead of challenging my conclusion you resort to this. Extremely [edited].

[emoji41]

 

[AndThisGospel]

Verse 4 & 5 says that God made the elect spiritually alive.

What, is this the MennoSota Version?

Let's look at the NASB:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus....

1. Nothing about "the elect".
2. Before you knew Christ, i.e., when you were spiritually dead in sin, God put you into Christ and made you spiritually alive. You, the individual, weren't even born yet. How, then, could God have made you spiritually alive with Christ?
3. And God also raised you up together with Christ and took you to heaven "in Christ". Again, you weren't even born yet. How, then, could God have taken you to heaven "in Christ"?

 

[MennoSota]

What, is this the MennoSota Version?

Let's look at the NASB:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus....

1. Nothing about "the elect".
2. Before you knew Christ, i.e., when you were spiritually dead in sin, God put you into Christ and made you spiritually alive. You, the individual, weren't even born yet. How, then, could God have made you spiritually alive with Christ?
3. And God also raised you up together with Christ and took you to heaven "in Christ". Again, you weren't even born yet. How, then, could God have taken you to heaven "in Christ"?

You're tiresome.

Ephesians 1 tells us that Paul is addressing the elect.

"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love"

The work of making us alive is all God's. It is not of ourselves.

The verses you quote all scream at you about God's work, yet you choose to ignore it or are blind to it. I can't heal you of blindness when you are reading the Bible and missing truth right in front of your eyes.

 

[AndThisGospel]

You're tiresome.

Ephesians 1 tells us that Paul is addressing the elect.

"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love"

Are you "holy and blameless" before God?

Before answering keep these verses in mind: 1 John 1:8 & Romans 3:10

 

[MennoSota]

Are you "holy and blameless" before God?

Before answering keep these verses in mind: 1 John 1:8 & Romans 3:10

Not by my own merit. However, in Christ, yes.
There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

For I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live. Yet, not I, but Christ lives within me. And the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Not by my own merit. However, in Christ, yes.

1. Where is Christ - Isn't He in heaven?
2. Where are you - aren't you here on earth?

Conclusion: Then you aren't "in Christ"!

 

[AndThisGospel]

For I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live. Yet, not I, but Christ lives within me. And the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

When were you crucified with Christ? Answer: Romans 6:6/7:4

You weren't even born yet...So how did you die "in Christ".

 

[MennoSota]

1. Where is Christ?
2. Where are you?

I am in Christ. Christ is seated at the right hand of God the Father. (Ephesians 1:20) I am seated at the right hand of God the Father, in Christ. (Ephesians 2:6)

Grace is amazing.

 

[AndThisGospel]

I am in Christ. Christ is seated at the right hand of God the Father. (Ephesians 1:20) I am seated at the right hand of God the Father, in Christ. (Ephesians 2:6.

Okay, then taking your views to their natural conclusion, you have internet in heaven. How are things up there?

 

[MennoSota]

Okay, then taking your views to there natural conclusion, you have internet in heaven. How are things up there?

Your ability to grasp God's word is noted. [emoji422]

 

[AndThisGospel]

Your ability to grasp God's word is noted. [emoji422]

Your ability to answer and explain my questions concerning God's word is noted.

Would you like to understand the gospel or would you like to continue to follow Calvin blindly?

 

[MennoSota]

Your ability to answer and explain my questions concerning God's word is noted.

Would you like to understand the gospel or would you like to continue to follow Calvin blindly?

I don't follow Calvin. I follow God and His word. The thing I appreciate about Calvin is that he also followed God and His word. I appreciate a kindred spirit.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Anyway, you still haven't explained to me how you can be "in Christ" (and He is in heaven) and here too? Either you know or your don't know. I believe it is the latter.

 

[utilyan]

The whoever are the elect of God that will not perish. All others will certainly perish.

Ephesians 2:1 says we were all dead in our trespasses and sins.

We start out dead.

Verse 4 & 5 says that God made the elect spiritually alive.

I trust God on this one.

The promise is "shall not perish" that means "IT NO HAPPEN". The promise is a lie if you start off "dead" in the negative sense.



"Ephesians 2:1 says we were all dead in our trespasses and sins."

Romans 6
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

How many times you think we gotta die 3 or 4 times?

Jesus died that doesn't mean he is evil.

You have some great sounding half truths..... but no scripture to back it up.


You might have heard the wages of sin is death. You think they got wages up front?


Are you a born again Christian or just born once?

The expression one is dead also can mean being certain to die like saying someone is good as dead.

But if you want to force the meaning one starts existence dead, Then you are not born again, you are just born once.

 

[MennoSota]

The promise is "shall not perish" that means "IT NO HAPPEN". The promise is a lie if you start off "dead" in the negative sense.



"Ephesians 2:1 says we were all dead in our trespasses and sins."

Romans 6
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

How many times you think we gotta die 3 or 4 times?

Jesus died that doesn't mean he is evil.

You have some great sounding half truths..... but no scripture to back it up.


You might have heard the wages of sin is death. You think they got wages up front?


Are you a born again Christian or just born once?

The expression one is dead also can mean being certain to die like saying someone is good as dead.

But if you want to force the meaning one starts existence dead, Then you are not born again, you are just born once.

You convolute the scriptures and come to false conclusions.
Your thoughts on "shall not perish" are twisted like a pretzel in relation to spiritual deadness in Ephesians 2. There is no connection in the way you are trying to make the connection. Your methods of interpretation are strange and disconnected from anything any other person might do.
The problem seems to stem from the fact that you cannot separate body from spirit in your mind. In being incapable of recognizing the difference you then connect verses together out of context and make a nonsensical argument. Your premise is wrong, therefore everything after that falls apart.

 

[utilyan]

You convolute the scriptures and come to false conclusions.
Your thoughts on "shall not perish" are twisted like a pretzel in relation to spiritual deadness in Ephesians 2. There is no connection in the way you are trying to make the connection. Your methods of interpretation are strange and disconnected from anything any other person might do.
The problem seems to stem from the fact that you cannot separate body from spirit in your mind. In being incapable of recognizing the difference you then connect verses together out of context and make a nonsensical argument. Your premise is wrong, therefore everything after that falls apart.

Are you BORN AGAIN or BORN ONCE?