• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

CALVINISM’S GREATEST FALLACY

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What cult do you attend?


Costco. I think the pizza cleansed my soul.

And if you are allowed in the inner circle......Trader Joe's were we partake of the Toffee Pudding of God almighty which healeth all pain.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
OK. I agree
No you don't. You believe in free will.

You'll say, God's will is that men are free to do evil.

But, what do you say to victims of that evil? To the man in the alley where a robber's will prevailed over his? Or to the mother where the will of the murderer of her child prevailed over hers?

Did God's will prevail in those situations or not?

First, you nor I know that is true. Second, Romans 1:19 was just as true then as it is now.
LOL, we do know He sent prophets to some, and to many He did not. But it's about what God does, and the effects He knows it will have on the hearts of the people.

Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
There we have it. IF the works were done in those wicked cities, they would have repented. That's what Christ said anyway. So, was it God's pleasure NOT to do the works in those cities and reap a bountiful harvest?


No that is not my premise and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion that it is.
Lol. I'm not surprised. Let me point it out. You said, and I quote:

We can all agree that God has the power to stop sin, just as He had the power to prevent it from ever entering into our world, so let’s just dismiss that as an option. We are not debating about what God COULD do, we are debating about what God is PLEASED to do. This is not about God’s abilities, its about His character.​

Scripture please
It's what you said. See above. I'll rephrase it. So it DIDN'T please Him to prevent the Fall.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No you don't. You believe in free will.

The two are not opposed to each other.

But, what do you say to victims of that evil? To the man in the alley where a robber's will prevailed over his? Or to the mother where the will of the murderer of her child prevailed over hers?

Did God's will prevail in those situations or not?

God's will always prevails but that does not also mean he predetermined evil.

Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
There we have it. IF the works were done in those wicked cities, they would have repented. That's what Christ said anyway. So, was it God's pleasure NOT to do the works in those cities and reap a bountiful harvest?

Are you assuming that because God did not do these specific works mentioned in this passage that means he never attempted to offer them grace? That passage does not say that.


Lol. I'm not surprised. Let me point it out. You said, and I quote:

We can all agree that God has the power to stop sin, just as He had the power to prevent it from ever entering into our world, so let’s just dismiss that as an option. We are not debating about what God COULD do, we are debating about what God is PLEASED to do. This is not about God’s abilities, its about His character.​

It's what you said. See above. I'll rephrase it. So it DIDN'T please Him to prevent the Fall.

Scripture doesn't answer that question.
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No you don't. You believe in free will.

You'll say, God's will is that men are free to do evil.

But, what do you say to victims of that evil? To the man in the alley where a robber's will prevailed over his? Or to the mother where the will of the murderer of her child prevailed over hers?

Did God's will prevail in those situations or not?

LOL, we do know He sent prophets to some, and to many He did not. But it's about what God does, and the effects He knows it will have on the hearts of the people.

Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
There we have it. IF the works were done in those wicked cities, they would have repented. That's what Christ said anyway. So, was it God's pleasure NOT to do the works in those cities and reap a bountiful harvest?


Lol. I'm not surprised. Let me point it out. You said, and I quote:

We can all agree that God has the power to stop sin, just as He had the power to prevent it from ever entering into our world, so let’s just dismiss that as an option. We are not debating about what God COULD do, we are debating about what God is PLEASED to do. This is not about God’s abilities, its about His character.​

It's what you said. See above. I'll rephrase it. So it DIDN'T please Him to prevent the Fall.


Jesus Commands that we repent, not GOD to repent.

If God wanted to forcibly stop all sin right now he could as easily as you can press the delete button.

The reason he doesn't is it would be an act of evil based on fear.

You preach God doesn't put gas in the car and then blames the car for not running. Absolute absurdity.
 

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
Born from above, as that rebirth is caused by the Holy Spirit Himself.

You added to scripture there what is not in that passage.

Actually, Yeshua1 is correct. In the Greek, "born" is passive, meaning it is not something you can do to or for yourself. Also the word "again" can be translated as "from above." So, the passage is actually saying what Yeshua1 is suggesting. It is not adding to scripture at all.

The Archangel
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jesus Commands that we repent, not GOD to repent.

If God wanted to forcibly stop all sin right now he could as easily as you can press the delete button.

The reason he doesn't is it would be an act of evil based on fear.

You preach God doesn't put gas in the car and then blames the car for not running. Absolute absurdity.
Did not God expect fruit from a tree out of season?

It would be no sin for God to “forcibly stop all sin.”

And, if He chose to do so it would not “be an act of evil based on fear.”
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, Yeshua1 is correct. In the Greek, "born" is passive, meaning it is not something you can do to or for yourself. Also the word "again" can be translated as "from above." So, the passage is actually saying what Yeshua1 is suggesting. It is not adding to scripture at all.

The Archangel
This ties into Jesus telling us that the Holy Spirit blows as He wills.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
If God wanted to forcibly stop all sin right now he could as easily as you can press the delete button.

The reason he doesn't is it would be an act of evil based on fear.
You're wrong on both parts.

The day is coming when all sin is forcibly stopped. And the reason it isn't yet is because all His elect are not yet saved.

You should read the Scriptures. Now go away and let Mommy and Daddy talk. Okay?
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did not God expect fruit from a tree out of season?

It would be no sin for God to “forcibly stop all sin.”

And, if He chose to do so it would not “be an act of evil based on fear.”


God is our exemplar. Anyone can forcibly stop all sin......just blow the world up. All sinning stops.

But its not done that is an act of evil. That why God is not doing it that way.
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You're wrong on both parts.

The day is coming when all sin is forcibly stopped. And the reason it isn't yet is because all His elect are not yet saved.

You should read the Scriptures. Now go away and let Mommy and Daddy talk. Okay?

Nonsense. God alone is the full security of being saved. Nothing is impossible with God.

Your sin is you think God is an idiot.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Is God powerful enough to give men free will and still be sovereign?
God never gave anyone free will.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.

A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

A tree cannot be corrupt and good at the same time.

That's the Gospel truth according to Jesus. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

If we judge Mitch's premise according to Jesus, those who by their own free will choose to repent, do so because they are good.

Those who resist do so because they are evil.

This is the conclusion at which one must arrive, if we accept Christ's words about the nature of men, to whom He was referring metaphorically by trees.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nonsense. God alone is the full security of being saved. Nothing is impossible with God.

Your sin is you think God is an idiot.
Some things are still impossible for God to do though, as that would violate His nature and attributes, such as Him committing any sins.
 
Top