Calvinism - an attempt at a common definition for the sake of discussion

[robycop3]

I agree with this. HOWEVER, nothing you said here supports the idea that God would somehow not be completely just if, for his own purpose and glory, created vessels prepared for destruction.

We're gonna hafta simply agree to disagree on this. I firmly believe salvation is open to ALL living people. Otherwise, why did Jesus give the "Great Commission"? Why did He have Paul write "For WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved"?

 

[Dave G]

Otherwise, why did Jesus give the "Great Commission"?

To gather God's chosen people out of all nations ( Jeremiah 23:3, Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, John 11:52, Ephesians 1:10, Micah 4:1-7, Hebrews 12:23, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).

Why did He have Paul write "For WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved"?

Because truly, whosoever calls ( prays sincerely ), from a changed heart ( Psalms 34:18, Psalms 119:2, Psalms 145:18, John 4:24, 2 Timothy 2:22 ) upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved.

Praying to God doesn't get anyone anywhere...that a person prays to the God of all Creation in truth and in spirit, is the direct result of him having invaded their lives and mercifully changed their desires, which were, up until they believed, "couldn't care less".

Not just anyone who prays to the Lord, in Jesus name, is saved ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).
Not just anyone who asks, in pretense or for selfish reasons like escaping Hell, is saved.
Not just anyone who hears about Jesus Christ and says within themselves, "I'll take some of that!", is really and genuinely saved.

I've seen far too many people in my lifetime who "prayed the prayer" or sat under the preaching of the word, and then go back to the world and its ways... and never blink an eye.
Too many that have professed Christ, only to get bogged down, discouraged, and gave up their "faith" when He didn't "deliver on His promises", or they got sick and never recovered.
Too many people that think that "professing Christ" and "believing all the right things" are what it takes to gain eternal life.
Too many people who "go to church" because they like the songs, appreciate the nursery, love the pastor and what he says, like their church "library", love the "bus ministry", like "singing in the choir" etc, etc.


Too many "fair weather Christians"...whose hearts have never been permanently changed.

 

[Dave G]

I firmly believe salvation is open to ALL living people

I once did, as well.

But Roby,

There are people the world over, even in the Bible, like the Pharisees and others of God's chosen nation of Israel, who called upon the name of the Lord Jehovah and whose hearts were far from Him, even though, all the while, praying to Him and honoring Him with their lips ( Isaiah 29:13, Matthew 15:8, Mark 7:6 ).

If a person believes, truly and genuinely with all their being, in their definite need of a Saviour because their sin is an affront to God, and casts themselves upon His mercy, then He will save them.
But doing those things, from the heart, is also because He already has saved them.
The reason they do so was not in and of themselves, but by the power of God.

Yes, people do it, probably every day, somewhere in the world.
Yes, people feel like they are the ones doing it every time the Gospel is preached...
...and they are doing it....willingly.

But God's word teaches that God caused it ( Psalms 65:4 ):

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" ( Titus 3:5 )

...which is what I found out after being a believer for over 25 years.

True belief is a response to God's choice.
God acts, and then people re-act.
God provokes the soul to repentance by the power of His Spirit, by changing the heart, and people then believe and repent at the preaching of the cross...which is part of the Gospel.

God doing the choosing does not disqualify statements like, "Whoseover believeth" and "Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved", roby...it simply further defines them.

Is salvation available to all people?

Preach the cross of Jesus Christ and find out...some will believe, some will leave in disgust, some will heckle you for it, some will believe for a while and then give up, and some will claim to believe and never show any real godly fruit.

Why?
Because God tells us, in His word, why.

He tells us that there are "tares".
He tells us that people "choose Him" everyday, but that they don't really mean it.
..and He tells us that those that do "really mean it" were given the gift of eternal life by Him.

and then the hard part...
Because He decided who to save, who to choose to be "in Christ" from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).
Those that "stick it out", through thick and thin, are His beloved children, whom He is not willing that any perish, but that they all come to repentance ( 2 Peter 3:9 ).

May God bless you, sir.



Apologies to the OP for wandering, but I felt that this needed to be addressed because the opportunity presented itself.