Calvinism and Free Will

[Allan]

what no answer?



Not the 1st time you jump in like that. Not for sure on this...but till you started posting to me on this thread...I cannot remember reading a post of yours. I may have....but I do not recall.

But this I know..it was not to you...and..STILL NO ANSWER

I gave you your answer but you want people to cater to you. Sorry your not that special. Read like everyone else and comment on their posts rather than have them come out AGAIN and RE-state everything AGAIN.

 

[Jarthur001]

this all begain back on page 26 I think it was...

with my giving a "good job" to another brother. This made them so mad, they could no longer see. This shows in the logic of their post. Note I said right after Q stated on his wrath and rage in something fitting to behold like no other, that I asked Q..what makes you think I'm talking about you???? or something like that. PLEASE DON"T MAKE A BIG DEAL IF ITS NOT WORD FOR WORD!! yet another side step

So what really happened? I read the thread and read a few lines by npetreley

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1125046&postcount=21
Please finish the sentence, and you'll see that you're wrong.


http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1125156&postcount=39
You free-willers are all alike. The moment you get stumped you cry, "hostility!" and run away.


http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1125210&postcount=43
Really? Then why is it you guys never answer the questions? Don't bother answering that one, it's a rhetorical question.

and now we are on page 32

all I did was say...good job



Then Allan comes in to save the day....not knowing what he is talking about.



still mad??

BTW...

0 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Jarthur001]

0 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sure very simple.

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

3) what happened to man in the garden?

Last one...

i give up. I will save this one. Priceless

 

[youngmom4]

For crying out loud, does nobody here have anything better to do than argue over what issues we should divide over?! :BangHead:

For the record:

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

Duh...God. Since He created everything, it had to have been His desire to place the tree in the garden.

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

Naw...He's God, but He didn't have a clue! :tonofbricks: Of course He knew what would happen.

3) what happened to man in the garden?

Man chose to disobey God, at the urging of his wife. She allowed Satan to deceive her, chose to disobey God and persuaded her husband to do the same. Adam and Eve were responsible for their choices to disobey God. God was not responsible for their choices, He did not want them to choose to disobey, but yes, He knew that they would.

Now, I know that's not what a lot of you want to hear, but deal with it. For the record, I don't consider myself Calvinist or Arminian, or anything else. I am a Christian and a member of a Baptist church. That means I follow Christ..not any man (or woman, for that matter). Now, why doesn't everybody go get out their Bibles and read about how Jesus wanted us all to be united in following Him. I think that would be a lot more productive than continuing this argument. :thumbs:

 

[Allan]

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

God

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

Yes.

3) what happened to man in the garden?

Man choose to reject the truths God had already given him for lies, thus sinned.



None of these answers conflict with the non-Calvinist view.

The problem between our two views is not that God didn't know about sin but was it the intention of God to make His creation sin or give them the choice to sin.
One makes God the first cause of sin in making His creation sin by giving him no real choice but TO sin. - As in - His plan was to make man sin and then determine the means.

The other view acknowledges that God knew sin would come about if His creation (man or angel) had a choice and that knowledge was part of His Full plan. Not that God 'wanted' sin in His creation and that it fall, but that God knew sin would neccesarily come if his creation had a choice.

Therefore it was not God's desire FOR sin specifically to be - but - that He KNEW sin would be if a choice was permitted.


It boils down to - Did Adam have a ligitimate choice TO sin or not?
- thus permit or determine.

 

[blackbird]

This thread has reached beyond the 30 page limit for debate on this forum and will be closed now

Blackbird, Moderator