Calvinism Explained In One Word

[LeBuick]

I kind of wish you guys would put the persons name along with the quote so we know who said it.

Now you notice another boat coming along beside your boy. This boat has a box full of life vest and large net and 5 large ropes. There are also 10 very strong men on board. Then you notice the boat is labled.. "USA Swim Team". Do you ask this boat to violate your childs free will and save him, or do you leave it up to your child? The boat has the power to save him, if you ask them to. Would you ask?

To freewillers "free will" has more power then God. It is what controls God. It is said by them, that God will always honor free will!! If in fact this is the case as freewillers say, how can a freewiller pray to God to save another person? Is this not up to the freewill of the person? Would God violate freewill? If God intervenes in a persons choice...is it freewill? If God will not intervene...why pray?

I don't know who you were quoting here but the power to save is not in the boat. Even once on the boat he could always jump back off.

I don't believe Man has more power than God. I believe free will is something God gave man and not a power that man possess. I think you are blurring the lines of predistination with those of an all knowing God.

I pray for the salvation of my fellow man in the same spirit Paul prayed for Israel in Rom 10.

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

My prayer is they may call on the name of the Lord and be saved.

 

[LeBuick]

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

 

[J.D.]

God tells us to pray. God also lays people on our hearts to pray. This is God at work, not your own mind. Part of Gods plan is pray. I are to depend or God and God only. We are to praise God. We are to ask God for our needs.

The movement will be in man, not God. This is seen in Jonah 3:9.

Good point James. I was just thinking about that very thing. A few months ago, God definitely and impressively moved on my heart to pray for a certain loved one's salvation. This was an EXCEPTIONAL impression. It wasn't a prayer like "I want him to be saved", but rather "Lord, save him as you have determined", because that was the impression I had, that God was about to bring him to conversion (I had witnessed to him many years before). I entered a season of prayer and arranged to visit him. After about 3 months I was able to go to his house fifteen hundred miles away. During our trip down, I repeatedly told my wife that he was going to get saved - I was sure of it.

I walked into the room, and after brief greetings he blurted out to me that he wanted to saved. We embraced and cried and prayed together as he received a glorious conversion!

I could give other examples of how prayer works. That salvation was a mountain removed into the sea. It was the Lord's working.

 

[Jarthur001]

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

My prayer is they may call on the name of the Lord and be saved.

Nothing wrong with that prayer.

When we have 2 things that conflict, if both run head om together, in the end one will over rule the other.

If a person does not want to be saved using his free will to chose not to be saved, can you pray to God to overpower his free will to save him? Or will God honor mans free will and leave him on his own and not answer your prayer?

 

[Allan]

Good point James. I was just thinking about that very thing. A few months ago, God definitely and impressively moved on my heart to pray for a certain loved one's salvation. This was an EXCEPTIONAL impression. It wasn't a prayer like "I want him to be saved", but rather "Lord, save him as you have determined", because that was the impression I had, that God was about to bring him to conversion (I had witnessed to him many years before). I entered a season of prayer and arranged to visit him. After about 3 months I was able to go to his house fifteen hundred miles away. During our trip down, I repeatedly told my wife that he was going to get saved - I was sure of it.

I walked into the room, and after brief greetings he blurted out to me that he wanted to saved. We embraced and cried and prayed together as he received a glorious conversion!

I could give other examples of how prayer works. That salvation was a mountain removed into the sea. It was the Lord's working.

This part of your post I have happened many times and is almost the exact prayer I pray each time in 'those' moments for that specific person God is showing me. The only difference in my prayer is that I pray "God help me know what and How You want this discussion to begin and end when speaking of You". Yet I am no Calvinist.

I am not bragging that God has allowed me to know before hand some specific people that WILL come to Christ. But since you brought it up I thought I would mention it as I am not a Calvinist.

 

[Allan]

What I did was tell a story and ask a few things. No one has addressed what I asked. I did not sat this is what you believe, I asked how a person can pray to God, and believe in freewill of man. That's it.

Come on James...when you speak of free-willers you speak of all those theologically in the Non-Calvinistic sense.
The same way and for the same reasons a person prays to God who believes God will do what God will do regardless of if you pray or not.

What I'm asking is, will God violate a persons free will? Any ideas?

Man is responsible with what he does with the Truth God reveals. God deos not violate anything. If man doesn't want to hear or discards what he hears he is judge by what he did with the Truth. And if a man will receive the truth of the Lord, he is judged according to what he did with the Truth.
Even Calvinists believe this, James.

I know Calvinist do. Just trying to understand the freewill side.

No, you are not trying to understand but trying to commentary the Non-Calvinist view very little accuracy. You set up what YOU believe is the reasoning and then try to knock it down with the pre-arranged question you designed as the Achiles heel to the arguement. But the problem is that what you are attacking is an illusion with almost no substance. Much like you accuse the Non-Cals of doing to Calvinism.

This is the statment you reply to. Please help me find the high horses condesending words. If I have, I will gladly say I'm sorry.

THIS IS YOUR PREVIOUS POSTING.
To freewillers "free will" has more power then God. It is what controls God. It is said by them, that God will always honor free will!! If in fact this is the case as freewillers say, how can a freewiller pray to God to save another person? Is this not up to the freewill of the person? Would God violate freewill? If God intervenes in a persons choice...is it freewill? If God will not intervene...why pray?

The high in question is your assumed understanding of free-will. The high horse is that you will not listen to those who hold to it, to at the very least display what we believe in the correct context and light that WE hold it. The high horse is questioning why we should even pray?!! That not only involves a great amount of arrogence but lack of understanding concerning the Non-Cal position.

 

[LeBuick]

If a person does not want to be saved using his free will to chose not to be saved, can you pray to God to overpower his free will to save him? Or will God honor mans free will and leave him on his own and not answer your prayer?

I would word it a little differently and say if a person choses to stay in the world or stay worldly. I say this because when I was a young boy we had an organist who played in a club until it closed on Saturday then played for our Church on Sunday. We prayed for him often and he eventually stopped playing in clubs and became a preacher.

I don't believe the porpose is to override ones free will as much as to hope God's shows him the light in such a way the he might see and seek it. That is what I draw from Pauls prayer to Israel. I believe the final choice is yours to take the hand of God or to drink from the fountain of salvation but I also believe the Lord will work some works that you may know that he is God and is willing and able to save the lost.

To the drunkard it might be brining him close to poisining or having his life completely destroyed. To another it might be time in jail or life out on the streets. We all have different breaking points and the Lord knows each of our limits. Some reach those limits and never surrender. Some see the limits in the future and repent.