Calvinism makes God Insincere of His Word

First, you would have to demonstrate that the normal usage is eternal salvation from hell. Second, you would have to explain why people go to hell. The Bible clearly reveals that people do go to hell (Luke 16; Rev 20:11-15; Rev 21:8; etc). Therefore, God is not the Savior of all men if this verse is talking about salvation from hell.

But your meaning is not the meaning for obvious reasons. If I admitted your meaning, I would have to give up orthodoxy and become a universalist.

Yes, Peter, James, and Paul all did. And before them Christ did. I wouldn't call it nonsense. They are the ones who taught this stuff first.

 

Hi Larry;

In order for what you believe to be orthodox it would have to be the true doctrine of scripture but your doctrines are not found in scripture with out you taking and redefining words to make it fit. The Calvinism you believe so much in wavers like a reed in the wind. The only thing you may have right is that Jesus is the Son of God. You simply cannot claim orthodoxy.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Mike,

Think about it. If I believed that God was the Savior of the whole world as Icthus tried to say, I would be a universalist ... that everyone goes to heaven. I can admit a level of orthodoxy for arminianism (not pelagianism). I can't admit any level of orthodoxy for universalism.

Calvinism doesn't waver a bit. It is a consistent doctrine that is drawn from the teaching of Scripture.

 

Larry;
Not one pedal of the tulip is scriptural. If you could prove it. You would when questioned on it. You don't offer any proof even when you do offer scripture because the scripture you refference never says what you claim it does. Calvinism is an easy believe-ism.
I've seen people come here and show you the truth and you reject it every single time. You insist you're right with nothing to hang on to but false doctrine.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

They are petals, not pedals, although no one really talks of "petals" of tulip (or pedals for that matter). And they are all scriptural and the scriptural basis for them has been shown many times. You have yet to offer one substantial proof against it. All of your attempts are based on your not understanding what we believe, and not understanding what Scripture teaches.

When you say that you have seen me reject the truth, you are lying. You have never seen that.

 

Mike,

Why don't you explain how God can be the Savior of hte world (meaning spiritual salvation as Icthus said) if people still go to hell.

That way, you could be on topic, and contribute something to the conversation.

 

Sort of He Loves Me.... He Loves Me Not

 

<<They are petals, not pedals, although no one really talks of "petals" of tulip>>

I refer to them as "pedals" also. The kind that I can "slam on the brakes" when it comes to false doctrine.

 

Diane,

God answered that one in John 3:16 where he said he loves the world. Calvinists have that covered.

 

Sort of He Loves Me.... He Loves Me Not

Whosoever surely meaneth me..... but not ALL according to Calvin!

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

Come on, Diane. Haven't we been here before?? Your statement is simply not true. Every Calvinist believes that whosoever will may come. But they have to will. Those who "won't" aren't included in the promise.

The difference between Calvinists and Arminians is not that one believes whosoever will may come and the other does not believe that. The difference is in what causes or leads someone to will to do something.

There are enough misunderstandings and plain false statements here without adding to them with this kind of stuff.

We all believe whosoever will may come, and that whoever believes will be saved.

As for 2 Peter 3:9, the difference is in who the "all," "us," and "any" are. They could be elect or they could be the world at large. I personally, as a five point Calvinist believes this verse testifies that God is speaking to all men without exception saying that he does not desire their death (Ezek 33:19). They are kept from him only by their own sinfulness. Other calvinists disagree and think he is referring to the elect. There is certainly a good exegetical case to be made for that, and I can make either one.

 

Hi Larry;

About all I see you making is accusations.
Mike

 

Created for heaven or created for hell. Correct?

 

Where did you see an accusation? I stated what I believed, and gave proof for it.

 

Correct what?

I don't see how that applies in this conversation. Romans 9 does make the point that certain vessels were prepared for destruction, and I find myself very uncomfortable with that, but since God said it I don't have much room to quibble. To be honest, I am not sure what to make of that. I don't think God desires the death of the wicked. He is not pursuing that, and when people die in sin, he is not rejoicing in it. He simply leaves them to do what they desire to do. Scripture makes that clear.

 

Larry, i'm baffled that you keep up with these simpletons. They accuse you of lying, then lie in the process. They say you are being inconsistant, then are inconsistant in the process. They attack a doctrine they don't understand, and claim scripture they haven't studied. They cry 'intellectualism' yet aren't willing to become an intellectual to state their case adequately. They refuse to use the reason God gave them to come to the knowledge of the truth and rely on emotional arguments and false analogies. Why are you wasting your time arguing? Why am I wasting my time posting this? Maybe I hope someone will snap out of it?

 

Incorrect. Salvation is of the LORD. The wages of sin is death.

Double predestination is a lie straight out of the pit of hell, and nobody naming the Name of Christ should ever repeat it. </font>[/QUOTE]NOT ANY MORE! Jesus' atonement for sin took care of that!

 

So created for heaven or created for........ ? If salvation is of the Lord then for a 5 point Calvinist, isn't damnation also 'of the Lord'? Either God chose that person for salvation or chose them NOT for salvation which is damnation.

How can you explain away the 'either or' of preselection?