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Calvinism makes God Insincere of His Word

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by icthus, Apr 7, 2005.

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  1. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    This is where you've gone wrong. Jesus said that they refused to come to Him. He didn't say that they could have done otherwise. He calls them to come to Him for life, but He also states (John 6:44) that they cannot come to Him without God's irresistible drawing.
     
    #61 whatever, Apr 9, 2005
  2. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    This is where you've gone wrong. Jesus said that they refused to come to Him. He didn't say that they could have done otherwise. He calls them to come to Him for life, but He also states (John 6:44) that they cannot come to Him without God's irresistible drawing. </font>[/QUOTE]Now, why would Jesus call someone whom He, as God knew could not come? You guys talk in riddles, adding to Scripture what is not there!
     
    #62 icthus, Apr 9, 2005
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Apparently you don't, if you disagree with what I said. Let's ask it this way: Do you believe God has a free will? If so, does that mean God can do anything?

    Did you read above? That is how it can be said. When you start with a proper definition of "free," it isn't hard.

    No it's not. :rolleyes:

    He makes the decision to reject Don't you see where Jesus said "You are unwilling to come ..."?? That is an act of the will. They rejected him.

    No it's not. The fact that you don't understand it means you don't understand it. It doesn't means it has any contradictions. It seems obvious that you have never interacted with this. YOu seem to have just accepted blindly the stuff you have been told.

    Start with the above question and then let's go from there.
     
    #63 Pastor Larry, Apr 9, 2005
  4. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    This is where you've gone wrong. Jesus said that they refused to come to Him. He didn't say that they could have done otherwise. He calls them to come to Him for life, but He also states (John 6:44) that they cannot come to Him without God's irresistible drawing. </font>[/QUOTE]Now, why would Jesus call someone whom He, as God knew could not come? You guys talk in riddles, adding to Scripture what is not there! </font>[/QUOTE]You tell me. Jesus said they couldn't come on their own. You need to decide what to do with that - whether you keep ignoring it, or whether you start believing what He taught.
     
    #64 whatever, Apr 9, 2005
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Peter in 1 Peter 1:22-25 tells us that Regeneration comes from the word of God, and you say that Jesus says "they couldn't come on their own". I think you need to post the scripture for Jesus's thoughts. I'm not so sure that is what he was telling us.
     
    #65 Wes Outwest, Apr 10, 2005
  6. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Peter in 1 Peter 1:22-25 tells us that Regeneration comes from the word of God, and you say that Jesus says "they couldn't come on their own". I think you need to post the scripture for Jesus's thoughts. I'm not so sure that is what he was telling us. </font>[/QUOTE]Peter says that the new birth comes through, not from, the Word of God:

    1Pe 1:23 "...since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God..."

    You really shouldn't change Scripture to fit what you want to believe, you know. Jesus' comments are from John 6:44 as I said earlier:

    "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."

    Can't do it on your own. No way.
     
    #66 whatever, Apr 10, 2005
  7. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    For a consensus of opinion, lets look at several translations.
    3 out of 10 say "through" the rest say "by" or "from". Consensus says "by or from". Evenso, "through" also expresses the thought that the Word of God is the source of our regeneration into the NEW LIFE IN CHRIST!

    Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God!
     
    #67 Wes Outwest, Apr 10, 2005
  8. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman New Member

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    Really Calvinisms makes the gospel a mute pt from beginning to the end. Its all done and settled, no repentence, no call to obedience, no call to live a holy life or call upon the name of the Lord, it is all insincre. Follow J. Calvin or J.C. that is the choice here. Oops no such thing, sorry.
     
    #68 Timtoolman, Apr 10, 2005
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The Gospel of Jesus Christ is never moot. (Or mute either.)

    Actually Calvinists believe that repentance is a requisite result of our regeneration. And Calvinists call for full obedience to the Lordship of Christ. And Calvinists know that to call upon the Name of the Lord is the God given product of regeneration.
    Calvinists follow Christ, not Calvin. And if you think people don't make choices you are sadly mistaken.

    Where did you get all this misinformation about Calvinism? Has somebody been lying to you? Your Pastor? Your Sunday School Teacher? Your Youth Director? Your Nursery Worker?
     
    #69 TCassidy, Apr 10, 2005
  10. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman New Member

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    LOL, I know poor misunderstood calvinist. I get it from you folks, calvinist. You all don't listen to what is being said with your John Calvin sunglasses. That is why you are always being misunderstood. Have you all ever thought that the words you use mean something and when people all come up with the same arguement or contradictions to what you calvinist teach, then maybe its what you are saying.
    Listen, you missed the whole pt. of what I wrote. If God has picked and chose, He makes everyone and all things do what He wants.....then it is all said and done from now to eternity. Why would the gospel tell people to call on the Lord if they are not really able to, or to repent, or too seek God's will or anything commanded of the Bible. Put down your calvinist pitchforks and listen to yourselves.
     
    #70 Timtoolman, Apr 10, 2005
  11. here now

    here now Member

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    Wes says:
    Peter in 1 Peter 1:22-25 tells us that Regeneration comes from the word of God,


    HN:
    Wes,
    You just don't get it. Where do you get the Word of God. The answer IS GOD. The Word of God IS NOT DEAD, NOT just words in a book. The Word IS GOD!
    Man has nothing to do with his rebirth. It does NOT come just by merely reading the Bible. It comes through the Holy Spirit!
     
    #71 here now, Apr 10, 2005
  12. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    The Gospel of Jesus Christ is never moot. (Or mute either.)

    Actually Calvinists believe that repentance is a requisite result of our regeneration. And Calvinists call for full obedience to the Lordship of Christ. And Calvinists know that to call upon the Name of the Lord is the God given product of regeneration.
    Calvinists follow Christ, not Calvin. And if you think people don't make choices you are sadly mistaken.

    Where did you get all this misinformation about Calvinism? Has somebody been lying to you? Your Pastor? Your Sunday School Teacher? Your Youth Director? Your Nursery Worker?     </font>[/QUOTE]Yeh Cassidy, the truth is, that the Nursery Worker probably knows more about the Holy Bible than you do. You see, it knowledge of the Holy Bible that is important to our Christian growth, and NOT the writings of some warped Calvinist, who needs to get their head sorted out, so that they can see right from wrong. Both you are Larry seem to be inteligent men, yet your posts on this thread show that you are both blinded to the truth. To you guys, the truth is, as long as it is Calvinism. You remind me of the guy I knew some time ago, a raving Calvinist. I asked him once, if he was a Calvinist or Christian? He said, I am a Calvinist. There you have it!
     
    #72 icthus, Apr 10, 2005
  13. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Tim,

    No one missed the point of what you wrote. Your objection is a common one and is easily dealt with. The problem is that you won't listen. You display your ignorance of our doctrine for all the world to see, and someone comes along to try to help you understand what the Bible really teaches and you respond with mockery. That's just not smart.
     
    #73 whatever, Apr 10, 2005
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Sorry, but you have been misinformed yet again. I am not a Calvinist. I am a Particular Baptist.
    Actually, you didn't get any of the false information you posted from me. You got it from somebody who lied to you.
    I am not sure what your disjointed sentence means, but I don't have any John Calvin sunglasses. I didn't even know he made sunglasses. My sunglasses are Raybans.
    No, the reason you don't understand what I believe is that you lack the intellectual integrity to listen.
    I have seen that, over and over again, in this thread, I, or the Calvinists, make a statement what we, or they, believe and two posts later the anti-calvinists say the same thing again even though they know it is wrong.
    I don't have a Calvinist pitchfork, just a bible. And my bible says, over and over again, that God draws men unto Himself and enables them to believe. If your bible doesn't say that maybe you better through it away and get a better one.
     
    #74 TCassidy, Apr 10, 2005
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Your childish insults and obvious lack of grace is why I stopped responding to your vicious and insulting posts.
    I don't know to whom you are referring, but my knowledge comes from the Bible not the writing's of mere men.
    No, our posts show that we know the truth, and that you, and other other "antis" simply don't know what you are talking about so you have to resort to ugly name-calling, vicious innuendo, and personal attacks.
    Wrong again. I am a Particular Baptist and get my truth from the bible.
    You remind me of the guy I knew some time ago, a raving anti-Calvinist. I asked him once, if he was an anti-Calvinist or Christian? He said, I am an anti-Calvinist. There you have it!

    (Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it!)
     
    #75 TCassidy, Apr 10, 2005
  16. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    I not only get it, I've had it for over 50 years!
    Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. We read, we believe, we are accepted by God! Not a difficult concept especially in light of the fact that the Gospel message was made simply in order to confound the wise (intellectuals)!
     
    #76 Wes Outwest, Apr 10, 2005
  17. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman New Member

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    Whatever and Tcassidy, I think you two are on display. IN front of main christiandom who rejects the teachings of your leader. I love the childish way you disected evey line and tried to make me out a lair. I have listen to you followers of calvin enough to know that none of you know what your talking about. Look through all these threads, visit other boards, get on paltalk. The whining about being misunderstood calvinist is deafening. I repeat, you all love to talk (I believe knowlege is the true god you all worship, see who knows more thent he other but all lack common sense.)but listening to others is not possiable with your kind. Just keep thinking that you all know more then the rest and let that be your peace.

    God Bless
     
    #77 Timtoolman, Apr 10, 2005
  18. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    So tell me in a nutshell, what do Calvinists believe? I think you don't know. Prove me wrong.
     
    #78 whatever, Apr 10, 2005
  19. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    TCassidy,

    I still want to know why you listed Pelagius as your Church Father?

    You are the first person whom I have ever known that calls Pelagius a Christian in his theology.
     
    #79 El_Guero, Apr 10, 2005
  20. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    PS - Whatever,

    Now I understand the passionate statements ... this thread is rather heated ...
     
    #80 El_Guero, Apr 10, 2005
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