Calvinism needs to add words to scripture

[atpollard]

"John Calvin was...in favor of beheading and burning at the stake those who disagreed with him" = Horror.
So, we know that God didn't Call Calvin, or Lead him, to do that.

"For as many as are Led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God", Romans 8:14.

Are we going to apply the same metric to Martin Luther and rejoin the Catholic Church?

In his 1543 treatise, On the Jews and Their Lies, Luther advocated for severe persecution, including the destruction of homes and synagogues, the burning of prayer books, and the banning of rabbis from teaching. He recommended that rabbis be forbidden to teach under "pain of loss of life and limb," which proposed capital punishment.

Are we going to hold King James 1 to the same standard and reject the KJV Bible?

James I (VI of Scotland) was responsible for widespread witch hunts in Scotland (roughly 1,500 executions, often focusing on women, starting in 1590).

1500 people (mostly women) murdered by King James DWARFS anything that John Calvin may have done.

 

[DaveXR650]

"In his expositions [Calvin] is not always what moderns would call Calvinistic" —Charles Spurgeon, Commenting and Commentaries

Yeah. I notice that with a lot of theologians, especially if they were practicing preachers also. I seem to see writers all over the place trying to explain Calvin, or Augustine for that matter, and there are people saying Calvin definitely believed in limited atonement and some say no. It's sufficient for me that most Calvinists believe that anyone who comes to Christ will be saved. How that is working will of course be according to your view of determinism and how God's sovereignty works, and we can't forget, your view of precisely how our sins are dealt with by the atonement.

I don't have enough history background to know but it is interesting to try to figure out how the extreme determinism philosophical part of what we argue about on Calvinism came about. I mean when Sproul said that there cannot be one single random molecule that God is not completely in control of did he get that from Calvinist theologians who preceded him, or from philosophers, or has that been deduced since the Reformation and the brief era when Puritans were predominant in England.

Like I have said before, I have no problem with any Calvinist who says that the offer of the gospel is genuine to all who hear it. For myself, I don't believe the atonement is limited in any way and have no problem telling anyone who asks about the gospel and what it is, or will at least listen to someone explain it - that Christ died for them. But I'm OK with the Calvinist statement of "Christ has died, and you now can come". Unfortunately, that is too much for some Calvinists, who insist that it's either all 5 points or nothing and there is no such thing as a 4 point Calvinist. I'm not so sure the terms mean much anymore, except on a debate forum, which is fun if you don't get too carried away with it.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It is interesting to compare Calvin's Commentaries to the elaborate doctrinal schemes he concocted in The Institutes.
His Commentaries, by their nature, are more constrained by Scripture. As one observer noted:

"In his expositions [Calvin] is not always what moderns would call Calvinistic" —Charles Spurgeon, Commenting and Commentaries

John Calvin: Commentary on Matthew, Mark, Luke - Volume 3 - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

ccel.org

[Mark 14:24]
"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse. It must at the same time be observed, however, that by the words for you, as related by Luke — Christ directly addresses the disciples, and exhorts every believer to apply to his own advantage the shedding of blood Therefore, when we approach to the holy table, let us not only remember in general that the world has been redeemed by the blood of Christ, but let every one consider for himself that his own sins have been expiated."

Calvin's commentary on Ephesians 1:4.
"According as He has chosen us." The foundation and the first cause of our calling, and indeed of all the blessings we receive from God, is here defined to be His eternal election. If we ask why God has called us to enjoy the gospel, why he daily showers on us so many good things, why he opens up the gates of heaven to us, the answer is always discovered in this principle - that "He has chosen us before the foundation of the world." The very time when God elected us proves that it was a gracious election; for what could we have deserved, or what merit did we possess, before the world was even created?" [Quite a bit more in the same vein]

But I really don't care what Calvin did or didn't teach. The system known as Calvinism was not originated by Calvin, and represents Biblical truth. End of story.

 

[kyredneck]

Calvinism is a truly horrible distortion of God’s Word.

Calvinism has its roots in a barbaric, ungodly, murderous attitude.

The hypocrisy when it comes to the word all is amazing.

Calvinism doesn’t understand election.

If only you could finally succeed in stamping out this evil, 'Calvinism', perhaps we could achieve world peace....

 

[Ascetic X]

If only you could finally succeed in stamping out this evil, 'Calvinism', perhaps we could achieve world peace....

Christianity will triumph over Calvinism.

2 Corinthians 2:14

Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

 

[kyredneck]

Christianity will triumph over Calvinism.

You lack the sense to recognize who the real enemies are.

 

[Ben1445]

If only you could finally succeed in stamping out this evil, 'Calvinism', perhaps we could achieve world peace....

Well, there is also this thing about dispys. If you could stamp them out you might not have anyone to fight with either

 

[Ascetic X]

You lack the sense to recognize who the real enemies are.

If only you could finally succeed in stamping out this evil, 'Calvinism', perhaps we could achieve world peace....

Since you call Calvinism evil, you are aware of the lies contained in it.

 

[kyredneck]

Well, there is also this thing about dispys. If you could stamp them out you might not have anyone to fight with either

Well, I'm not 'ate up' with DDS like you anti-Cals are with CDS. My Mom, Mamaw, aunts, uncles, cousins were/are all Dispies, all from the same Jew-worshipping hyper-Dispensational, hyper-evangelical Sothern Baptist church I grew up in (all good folks). I myself was once a Dispy, Hal Lindsay fan.

Then I started studying the Bible and now know better, but I'm not deranged about it to the point that I think God put me on this earth to stamp it out like you CDS quacks that are obsessed with fighting the evil Calvinism.

 

[kyredneck]

Since you call Calvinism evil, you are aware of the lies contained in it.

Well, like wow, you're so clever! You sure got me there!

 

[Psalty]

Well, I'm not 'ate up' with DDS like you anti-Cals are with CDS. My Mom, Mamaw, aunts, uncles, cousins were/are all Dispies, all from the same Jew-worshipping hyper-Dispensational, hyper-evangelical Sothern Baptist church I grew up in (all good folks). I myself was once a Dispy, Hal Lindsay fan.

Then I started studying the Bible and now know better, but I'm not deranged about it to the point that I think God put me on this earth to stamp it out like you CDS quacks that are obsessed with fighting the evil Calvinism.

“Im not deranged about it!” Says the guy who does the most name calling and insults about it!

Pot, meet Kettle!

 

[Psalty]

- that "He has chosen us before the foundation of the world." [Quite a bit more in the same vein]

But I really don't care what Calvin did or didn't teach. The system known as Calvinism was not originated by Calvin, and represents Biblical truth. End of story.

Just like AeseticX is pointing out, Calvin and you make the same mistake by modifying the word of God… in this case DELETING!

The Calvinist reading:
just as He chose us before the foundation of the world.
— Ephesians 1:4

The real reading:
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.
— Ephesians 1:4

To the Calvinist, the words “in Him” make no difference at all. Just how Calvin incorrectly quotes it, so to Martin and others agree. Never mind that its not even about salvation but being holy and blameless!

Perfect example and thank you for demonstrating it in the founder of your theology no less!!

 

[kyredneck]

“Im not deranged about it!” Says the guy who does the most name calling and insults about it!

Pot, meet Kettle!

Point taken. Sometimes lies like these from 'your side' get my goat...

Calvinism is a truly horrible distortion of God’s Word.

Calvinism has its roots in a barbaric, ungodly, murderous attitude.

The hypocrisy when it comes to the word all is amazing.

Calvinism doesn’t understand election.

 

[kyredneck]

The Calvinist reading:
just as He chose us before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.
— Ephesians 1:4

The real reading:
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
— Ephesians 1:4

Nothing wrong with the Calvinist understanding. According to the Bible, INDIVIDUALS are chosen (pronouns tell the story), not some corporate glob that you all try to force it to be. :

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassiontry to twist it to be. on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.
18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Ro 9

 

[Psalty]

Nothing wrong with the Calvinist understanding. According to the Bible, INDIVIDUALS are chosen (pronouns tell the story), not some corporate glob that you all try to force it to be. :

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassiontry to twist it to be. on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.
18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Ro 9

Why are you running to other texts? Interpret Eph 1:4.
Are they chosen for salvation or to be holy and blameless?
Are they chosen by themselves, or the fact that they are in Christ, the chosen one?

Stay to the context please, you dont need to run to prooftexts in other books. What does Eph 1:4 say? Its not what the deletion of Calvin asserts, thats for sure. But Im here to see how you understand it.

 

[kyredneck]

Why are you running to other texts? Interpret Eph 1:4.
Are they chosen for salvation or to be holy and blameless?
Are they chosen by themselves, or the fact that they are in Christ, the chosen one?

Stay to the context please, you dont need to run to prooftexts in other books. What does Eph 1:4 say? Its not what the deletion of Calvin asserts, thats for sure. But Im here to see how you understand it.

Scripture cannot contradict scripture. Comparing scripture with scripture is essential for correct understanding. Do you form your doctrine from a single verse?

Election is individual, not corporate like you're attempting to force it to be..

Romans Chapter 9

11​	for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

 

[Psalty]

Scripture cannot contradict scripture. Comparing scripture with scripture is essential for correct understanding. Do you form your doctrine from a single verse?

Election is individual, not corporate.

So not answering, sticking with the deleted interpretation because you project other scriptures onto it (both of which you also misread, I might add)

Can you not interpret my 2 above questions on Eph 1:4? Is it that hard?

 

[kyredneck]

Why are you running to other texts? Interpret Eph 1:4.

I clarified your erroneous take on it by comparing scripture with scripture. I don't form doctrine from a single verse.

Are they chosen for salvation or to be holy and blameless?

Ephesians Chapter 1

4​	even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2

13​	But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

You err greatly by forming doctrine from a single verse.

 

[Ascetic X]

What is perhaps the most horrible doctrine of Calvin-worship is the so-called “sovereignty” (an unbiblical term) of God, which turns God into a monster who actually wills, and does not merely foreknow and allow, sin and evil to happen.

They do not understand “sovereignty”, which refers to being the ultimate ruler and law-giver over a kingdom, but not the cause of all that occurs in it.

Calvin-worshipers claim that everything that happens, no matter how vile or perverse, is caused and approved by God. They affirm that nothing is beyond the control of God and they gleefully ascribe diabolical deeds to Him. They feel no shame or impiety in making these outrageous, sacrilegious, and shockingly immoral assertions.

This is not the thrice-holy God of the Bible, who is Love and Light, and in Whom is no darkness at all.

Psalm 92:15

The Lord is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.


Calvinists assert that God wanted Adam to fall in the garden of Eden. God is so contradictory, according to their teaching, He gives a command, then wants His command to be violated. Making God the author of sin.


Jeremiah 19:5 debunks this deviant pseudo-theology:

They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it, neither came it into My mind.

 

[kyredneck]

They do not understand “sovereignty”, which refers to being the ultimate ruler and law-giver over a kingdom, but not the cause of all that occurs in it.

The potter has the right to do as He pleases, that's 'sovereignty' in every sense of the word.

Calvinists assert that God wanted Adam to fall in the garden of Eden.

Another one of your lies arising from your CDS. I know of no Calvinist that believes that.