Calvinism/origin of sin 2

[DHK]

And????

What's your point?

BTW, am I to take from this that you abandon the silly notion that God doesn't need anything if he wishes to accomplish anything?

No, just believe Scripture.

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; (Acts 17:25)
--Paul declares that God does not need anything. I take him at his word.

God's word tells us why he does what he does. He does things for his glory. Do you deny it?

God does all things for his glory. I am not the one to philosophize what God chooses to do and not to do. All things that he has done, does do, or will ever do, are not revealed to us in His Word. How can a finite man comprehend an infinite God.

 

[Luke2427]

I see you are admitting that you do not believe Christ was God on earth in physical form.

Show HOW I am saying that.

I see Calvinism much more clearly now. What I did not know before was how dark the theology is. I knew Calvin's personal life was very dark.

Only a moron would believe that. You don't have to agree with Calvinism but no intelligent Christian would say such an idiotic thing.

Even ARMINIANS do not believe the ignorant mess you are now spouting.

Some theological and church history training would be to your benefit and especially to the benefit of those poor souls you may have some influence over.

And again you are making out God to be an egotistical being who would rather have us suffer so we can praise him for being kind even though he caused the evil to happen to us through the false Calvinist beliefs.

If you don't believe God is most concerned for his own glory then you don't believe the Bible at all. You can't have even READ the Bible and not know that.

And I see that now you must be starting to see the error of your beliefs, but are afraid to confront them as you have started attempts at insults.

Crabtown, where is your explanation of how God shows his love by giving us a free will where most of us can use it to go to hell and burn forever?

I am waiting.

 

[Luke2427]

God does all things for his glory.

Great. That means he allowed and planned for the fall of man for his own glory.

Now, follow that out and you will abandon this new theology you guys made up in the last 75 years fro the truth of the Word of God.

 

[Skandelon]

Crabtown, where is your explanation of how God shows his love by giving us a free will where most of us can use it to go to hell and burn forever?

I am waiting.

It's right by the explanation of how God shows his love to people who can't accept his love unless He effectually causes them to do so and where all the rest go to hell and burn forever because he didn't choose to make them accept it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sure God is complete in and of himself.





There can be no mercy without sin. There can be love, but not MERCY which is the startling manifestation of the extent of God's love.

That CANNOT exist without sin.

Luke my Brother, kindly explain to me the word "Mercy's" definition and actual meaning in Greek.

Thanks

 

[Luke2427]

Why? Couldn't he have just effectually drawn them to understand these things and love him unconditionally?

No, of course not. God cannot BESTOW grace and mercy where grace and mercy are not warranted.

I agree with your statement, but I don't see how it supports your view since in your view God is the one who determines everything, including what people understand from an experience of God's manifestations of love.

See above.

Agreed, but for God to determine the sin in order to determine Calvary is non-sense and blatantly unbiblical.

It makes perfect sense and is the ESSENCE of Scripture. If not, prove it. Just making a claim is not an argument. An argument requires support.

Now, if you would qualify your statements by saying something like, God permissively decreed sins existence (allowed sin to exist though he could have stopped it) so as to actively decree its complete eradication and manifest His goodness...then you might have theology worthy of consideration.

It is the theology that predated Arminianism by better than a thousand years. Billions of Christians have adhered to it. It has produced the greatest missionaries, theologians, preachers and nations of all time.

To say it is not worthy of consideration is absurdity in the highest degree.

 

[Skandelon]

Great. That means he allowed and planned for the fall of man for his own glory..

Ok, what part did he merely "allow" and what part did he "plan?" How does God, in your way of thinking, merely allow anything if he has predetermined everything? Please expound.

Why not just say as you have in the past that God predetermined the fall, but that isn't evil because he had a good motive? Which is it? Did God allow the fall or did he do it with good motive? Pick one and stick to it.

 

[DHK]

Great. That means he allowed and planned for the fall of man for his own glory.

Now, follow that out and you will abandon this new theology you guys made up in the last 75 years fro the truth of the Word of God.

There is a difference between omniscience and a decree.
God created man with a free will to choose good and evil. He desired man to choose good. He tested him in the garden. Man failed, and chose evil. God did not decree evil. Man chose evil. There is the difference which you fail to see, and consequently blame the evil on God.

God desires that all men be saved.
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

But he has given man his own choice that he may come to repentance and be saved. He doesn't force him; man is not a robot. He is made in the image and likeness of God. And unlike the animals is given a free will, the ability to reason, and choose between good and evil.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke my Brother, kindly explain to me the word "Mercy's" definition and actual meaning in Greek.

Thanks

http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1656

Hope this helps

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1656

Hope this helps

Nice little tool you got there....thanks Pastor Luke

 

[Luke2427]

There is a difference between omniscience and a decree.
God created man with a free will to choose good and evil. He desired man to choose good. He tested him in the garden. Man failed, and chose evil. God did not decree evil. Man chose evil. There is the difference which you fail to see, and consequently blame the evil on God.

God desires that all men be saved.
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

But he has given man his own choice that he may come to repentance and be saved. He doesn't force him; man is not a robot. He is made in the image and likeness of God. And unlike the animals is given a free will, the ability to reason, and choose between good and evil.

So God never intended for man to fall???

Was it a surprise?

Why is "free will" so important to God that he was willing to let billions upon billions upon billions upon billions pour into hell from this earth like grain from a great hopper where they will roast in unimaginable agony forever and ever and ever and ever without so much as one SECOND of relief?????

Why do you think this makes God MORE loving??????

How do you think this makes him LESS the author of evil???

Did he not make the universe knowing that if he made it that way the result would be that multiplied BILLIONS would fry in hell forever?

Could he NOT have made a world where man would NOT fall??

What is so PRECIOUS to you and in your mind, to GOD, about free will that it was well worth the price of unspeakable eternal torment of so many billions of men, women, boys and girls?

 

[Luke2427]

Ok, what part did he merely "allow" and what part did he "plan?" How does God, in your way of thinking, merely allow anything if he has predetermined everything? Please expound.

Why not just say as you have in the past that God predetermined the fall, but that isn't evil because he had a good motive? Which is it? Did God allow the fall or did he do it with good motive? Pick one and stick to it.

there was no part that he did not plan. You ought to know that.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So God never intended for man to fall???

Was it a surprise?

Why is "free will" so important to God that he was willing to let billions upon billions upon billions upon billions pour into hell from this earth like grain from a great hopper where they will roast in unimaginable agony forever and ever and ever and ever without so much as one SECOND of relief?????


Why do you think this makes God MORE loving??????

How do you think this makes him LESS the author of evil???

Did he not make the universe knowing that if he made it that way the result would be that multiplied BILLIONS would fry in hell forever?

Could he NOT have made a world where man would NOT fall??

What is so PRECIOUS to you and in your mind, to GOD, about free will that it was well worth the price of unspeakable eternal torment of so many billions of men, women, boys and girls?

Come on Luke....didnt you see Rob Bell & that love will work out everything in the end? :laugh: Get with it Manno! :laugh:

 

[Skandelon]

there was no part that he did not plan.

Well, there is the part he allowed, which you have yet to differentiate from the part he has predetermined.

Give me one thing God actively predetermined and one thing God allowed (permissively decreed) and explain the difference.

 

[Luke2427]

Well, there is the part he allowed, which you have yet to differentiate from the part he has predetermined.

Give me one thing God actively predetermined and one thing God allowed (permissively decreed) and explain the difference.

Why do you think planning something and allowing it to happen are incompatible?

 

[Luke2427]

Come on Luke....didnt you see Rob Bell & that love will work out everything in the end? :laugh: Get with it Manno! :laugh:

Yep. And what these guys, the nameless theology guys in particular, do not realize is that it is THEIR theology that swings open wide the door to this Rob Bell damnable heresy.

All Rob Bell is doing is trying to make God more agreeable to the human mind. That is EXACTLY what these no-name theology guys are doing.

And by the way, Rob Bell has no nameable theology as well.

Rob Bell is where the Independents and Non-denom and SBC guys who have no historical theology will be in a generation.

 

[Skandelon]

Why do you think planning something and allowing it to happen are incompatible?

I don't, but I'm interpreting you're use of the term "planned" in the same manner you have used the terms, "predetermined, "foreordain," "decreed," etc etc etc....

When cornered you just change the term and hope the questions stop... Sorry to disappoint you.

Now, back to the question: Give me one thing God actively predetermined and one thing God allowed (permissively decreed) and explain the difference.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yep. And what these guys, the nameless theology guys in particular, do not realize is that it is THEIR theology that swings open wide the door to this Rob Bell damnable heresy.

All Rob Bell is doing is trying to make God more agreeable to the human mind. That is EXACTLY what these no-name theology guys are doing.

And by the way, Rob Bell has no nameable theology as well.

Rob Bell is where the Independents and Non-denom and SBC guys who have no historical theology will be in a generation.

From my own personal perspective, they are already there ... just wont admit it. Psychologists call it "Denial"

 

[Skandelon]

Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

Doesnt fit your profile :laugh: