Calvinism Poll #2 = More options!

[12strings]

I though we would try this again with more options regarding BB users views on the Soteriology aspects of Calvinism.

(You may only pick one option)

For the record:
T = Total Depravity (Inablity to chose God without H.S. enabling)
U = Unconditional Election
L = Limited Atonement
I = Irresistable Grace
P = Perserverance of the Saints (Eternal Security)

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Five points.
They all hang together.

Steve

 

[mont974x4]

The more I study the Word the more I see God's sovereignty being proclaimed in all 5 areas now described as TULIP. Calvin simply taught what Jesus already proclaimed. I cannot read the Gospel of John and come to any other conclusion.

 

[revmwc]

Still get didn't get everything covered in the Poll but we never will get it all covered.
:laugh:

 

[revmwc]

The more I study the Word the more I see God's sovereignty being proclaimed in all 5 areas now described as TULIP. Calvin simply taught what Jesus already proclaimed. I cannot read the Gospel of John and come to any other conclusion.

Mont calvin didn't teach any of the 5 points his followers developed the 5 points.

 

[mont974x4]

Just because he didn't label them and package them like his followers did does not mean he did not teach them.

 

[Amy.G]

I love the one that answered:
"I disagree with the premise of this poll and refuse to chose and answer."

Hey, you chose! :laugh:

 

[webdog]

I chose "disagree with all 5 points" as defined by calvinists. Depending on the meaning of the points, I 'can' get behind total depravity (which is not Augustinian original sin) and unconditional election (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets, disciples, Paul, etc.)

 

[DaChaser1]

I though we would try this again with more options regarding BB users views on the Soteriology aspects of Calvinism.

(You may only pick one option)

For the record:
T = Total Depravity (Inablity to chose God without H.S. enabling)
U = Unconditional Election
L = Limited Atonement
I = Irresistable Grace
P = Perserverance of the Saints (Eternal Security)

Am a 4 pointer Cal, would hold to all 5 IF you define the atonement as jesus death had the worth to save all, but only saves those whom God elected to apply it towards!

 

[jbh28]

Since the 5 points of Calvinism come from the 4 heads of the canons of Dort, I can say yes.

1. I believe that all are totally depraved meaning that every single person in Adam is a sinner and has no desire to come to Christ. The Spiritual things are foolish to him and he does not seek after God. This does not mean that man is as evil as he can be, but that evil has affected his entire being. His nature is corrupt. He is dead in his trespasses and sins and thus cannot do anything for his salvation.

As all men have sinned in Adam, lie under the curse, and are deserving of eternal death, God would have done no injustice by leaving them all to perish, and delivering them over to condemnation on account of sin, according to the words of the apostle, "that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God" (Rom. 3:19). And verse 23: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." And Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death."

- Cannons of Dordt 1st Head 1st Article

2. I believe that since man has no desire to come, God in his love has chosen to save some. This election isn't based on foreseen faith, good works or anything good in man, but rather that God chose to save "according to the good pleasure of his will." If election was based on foreseeing good in man, none would be saved. This election was done before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1:14)

3. The atonement of Christ is sufficient to expiate the sins of the whole world. It's efficiency is only to believers/elect. The atonement is meant for only believers. It was never intended to save those who die in unbelief.

4. Those whom God has chosen to be saved will be saved. (John 6:37) those whom God has chosen to be saved will be saved. They are not born saved but will be saved in time. The nonelect will resist God their entire lives. The elect may resist for a while(usually will) but will before they die come to Christ. God will convict their heart and change it from a heart of stone to a hear of flesh. (Ex 36:26)

5. All those that are saved will be kept by the power of God. As the cannons say, "Those thus saved God graciously preserves so they persevere until the end, even though they may be troubled by many infirmities as they seek to make their calling and election sure." John 6:37, John 10:28.

 

[12strings]

Since the 5 points of Calvinism come from the 4 heads of the canons of Dort, I can say yes.

Well! Since they come from the canons of Dort, how could you not believe them???

Just kidding, I think the Canons were mostly right too. Just checking if that's what you want your final source to be.

 

[jbh28]

Well! Since they come from the canons of Dort, how could you not believe them???

Just kidding, I think the Canons were mostly right too. Just checking if that's what you want your final source to be.

Of course. The cannons are the gospel!!! LOL I had to go away before I could change some of what I said....

What I meant was that my views are according to what I believe the Bible teach. I don't care if I line up. Since the question was about the 5 points, I wanted to clarify that yes if one understand where the 5 points actually come from. Some people define the 5 points a little differently today.

 

[quantumfaith]

I chose "disagree with all 5 points" as defined by calvinists. Depending on the meaning of the points, I 'can' get behind total depravity (which is not Augustinian original sin) and unconditional election (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets, disciples, Paul, etc.)

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[jonathan.borland]

Didnt vote. Like the other poll better.

 

[12strings]

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Quantum, do you disagree with perserverance of the saints? Is it eternal security itself you disagree with or the way the calvinists word it?

Just curious, I had always thought you were a osas guy...could be wrong.

 

[webdog]

Quantum, do you disagree with perserverance of the saints? Is it eternal security itself you disagree with or the way the calvinists word it?

Just curious, I had always thought you were a osas guy...could be wrong.

You can believe in the "preservation" of the saints which is somewhat different than the cal's "p".

 

[jbh28]

You can believe in the "preservation" of the saints which is somewhat different than the cal's "p".

Different from this...

"Those thus saved God graciously preserves so they persevere until the end, even though they may be troubled by many infirmities as they seek to make their calling and election sure."

 

[webdog]

Different from this...

"Those thus saved God graciously preserves so they persevere until the end, even though they may be troubled by many infirmities as they seek to make their calling and election sure."

Yes. The one above renders moot the many warnings given to believers to not walk in the flesh and the instances shown of true believers doing just that (Corinthians for example)

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum, do you disagree with perserverance of the saints? Is it eternal security itself you disagree with or the way the calvinists word it?

Just curious, I had always thought you were a osas guy...could be wrong.

No, sorry for the "confusion", I do agree with Eternal Security. However, I do understand the "misgivings" of many of my Methodist brothers on the topic. And I do agree with "elements" of mans depravity ( as I see it defined by most here in BB).

 

[jbh28]

Yes. The one above renders moot the many warnings given to believers to not walk in the flesh and the instances shown of true believers doing just that (Corinthians for example)

I thought that the "though they may be troubled by many infirmities" was speaking about that. How that believers will not be perfect.