HisServant said:
Not why, how... And his good pleasure does not say that he did it this way or the other. God spoke to us in the language of men, the word "choice/ selection / election are dependent upon criteria for its fulfillment.
The criteria revealed to us by God is "according to the kind intention of His will". Eph. 1:5. Why can't you just accept that?
You proclaim a mystery here, yet you proclaim to know that mystery when you say that God's good pleasure included nothing in us.
Words have meaning. "Grace" means "unmerited favor". Every time scripture speaks of God's grace toward us in salvation, God is revealing to us that there was nothing in us that warranted salvation.
You pull this information (out of context) from passages that describe God's selection of Jacob over Esau.
You didn't read my post very well. I quoted, in context, from Ephesians.
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Do you agree, or do you need to tweak this one a tad?
I agree with scripture, in total, in context.
What is the logical conclusion of this one verse? Does it mean all men will be saved? BTW, please get your answer from this one verse, since that is the only verse you want to stress.
While your meditating on that verse, please attempt to harmonize it with these verses. John 17: 2 "
even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. (3) This is eternal life, that they may know You.....(9) I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours,
And while you are harmonizing those verses, please consider these as well, John 10:26 "
But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. (27) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish."
Jesus tells them they do not believe because they are not His sheep. Notice He didn't tell them they weren't His sheep because they didn't believe. The "reason" they didn't believe was because they are not His sheep. How does that harmonize with I John 2:2?
If hidden, based on what criteria do you eliminate random selection?
I don't feel compelled to eliminate "random selection", because I don't feel compelled to question God's authority to make choices according to His good pleasure and for whatever reasons He so desires.
Why, exactly, do you feel compelled to eliminate "random selection"?
On what criteria do you eliminate faith as the criteria that God chose faith as the attribute that appeased his pleasure,...
The criteria is scripture. God told us it was "Grace", according to the kind intention of His will.
Faith, most certainly, is the means by which salvation is appropriated by believers. But that is not the question. The question is the criteria by which God chose us for His "Grace". That is clearly answered in scripture, time and again, as "Grace" according to His will.
Remember, it's a mystery, you can neither affirm nor deny either concept...
We can confirm what scripture teaches, in context, and nothing else.
John 3:16 (King James Version)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Again do you believe, or do you first need to tweak this to fit what you want to believe....
Without looking, can you quote John 3:8? What about John 3:21? You should be able to, since they are very important to understanding John 3:16.
The "whosoever" of John 3:16 has already been qualified by John 3:8 "
The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
The Greek word "wishes" denotes a deliberate determination of the will. Clearly, Jesus is revealing to us that being "born again" is a work of the will of God, Holy Spirit, which cannot be predicted nor manipulated by men.
That is, BTW, a theme that is repeated from John 1:12-13, which clearly demonstrates that those who are "born" of God, even those who believe, do so because of the will of God, not the will of man.
That very same theme is repeated in John 3:21 "
But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manisfested as having been wrought in God,"
Again, Jesus reveals to us that those who believe, who come to the Light, will manifest to everyone that God is the source of their new life.
Please harmonize those passages of scripture with I John 2:2.
peace to you
raying:
