Calvinism -TULIP

[Eric B]

Actually; he was describing the Calvinistic argument that God can not be omnipotent if He creates creatures capable of choice.

Now I ask you the same as I asked Dustin: If the Arminian god is "false", then do you agree with a radical group like Outside the Camp that all Arminians are lost? There is no doubling back on this. Either one must be a Calvinist to be saved, or else you are saying people can believe in a false god and be saved somehow. Else, watch your rhetoric. (Especially with the false reading of Rom.9 and other passages you whole theology is built on).

 

[JFox1]

False. I was describing the false arminian god.

Joseph Botwinick

Does that mean that members of Arminian-leaning churches such as Methodists are worshipping a false god and are going to hell?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Joseph Botwinick :False. I was describing the false arminian god.

HP:I am sorry I do not follow your comment. Be more specific in what you see as being ‘false.’

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Actually; he was describing the Calvinistic argument that God can not be omnipotent if He creates creatures capable of choice.

This is also false. God cannot be omnipotent if man's choice over-rides God's will.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Does that mean that members of Arminian-leaning churches such as Methodists are worshipping a false god and are going to hell?

[questioning the salvation of other posters in against BB rules Joseph]
Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

HP:I am sorry I do not follow your comment. Be more specific in what you see as being ‘false.’

Read the thread. I have no desire nor the time to rehash the entire thread.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JB: God cannot be omnipotent if man's choice over-rides God's will.

HP: God’s will is that all men come to repentance and find salvation. All men will not do this. Is God not omnipotent, unable to accomplish what He states is His will?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

HP: God’s will is that all men come to repentance and find salvation. All men will not do this. Is God not omnipotent, unable to accomplish what He states is His will?

God's will is to save the elect. Man cannot over-ride the will of God.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JB: God's will is to save the elect. Man cannot over-ride the will of God.

HP: Establish that God’s will is to save the ‘elect alone’ with Scriptural evidence.

 

[JFox1]

Yes, if they are truly worshipping the false arminian god that is taught by their Church.

Joseph Botwinick

WOW! Talk about dogmatic! I save that kind of stuff for cults like Armstrongism, not other denominations. "Seems that God is looking more for ways to get us home than for ways to keep us out. I challenge you to find one soul who came to God seeking grace and did not find it." Max Lucado, "When God Whispers Your Name." :jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Claudia: Can anybody just please explain to me the basics of Calvinism and T.U.L.I.P. and what exactly that means?

Is the entire thing about that we cant do anything at all of ourselves? Does it have anything to do with Predestination?

HP: It has everything to do with predestination, and in specific, predetermined fatalism of both the elect and the unsaved.

 

[gb93433]

Man cannot over-ride the will of God.

Joseph Botwinick

God is not willing that any should perish. On the basis of your belief where does that put Judas?

 

[Claudia_T]

WOW! Talk about dogmatic! I save that kind of stuff for cults like Armstrongism, not other denominations. "Seems that God is looking more for ways to get us home than for ways to keep us out. I challenge you to find one soul who came to God seeking grace and did not find it." Max Lucado, "When God Whispers Your Name." :jesus:

Isnt that kind of an irrelevant statement if Calvinists believe that the lost dont ever seek God's grace? Or do they?

 

[JFox1]

Isnt that kind of an irrelevant statement if Calvinists believe that the lost dont ever seek God's grace? Or do they?

I was responding to Joseph's statement accusing Arminian churches such as Methodists of worshipping a false god, insinuating that they will go to hell. I used to be a Methodist and they do seek God's grace. I'm currently Lutheran, which also does not subsribe to Calvinism. raying:

 

[Eric B]

This is also false. God cannot be omnipotent if man's choice over-rides God's will.

Nobody says that man's choice overrides God's will, except Calvinists who paint the other side that way for the sake of their argument.

God's will is to save the elect. Man cannot over-ride the will of God.

Ah, the problem is the definition of what "God's will" is. A preconceived notion of Calvinistic election, which is wrongly read into scriptures and assumed.

Yes, if they are truly worshipping the false arminian god that is taught by their Church.

So based on the above, this statement is totally unwarranted. This is blasphemy against God, and an attack against other Christians (not allowed on this board, which accepts both sides as true Christians). You condemn yourself by saying stuff like this, especially if your interpretations of scripture happen not to even be right.

 

[Claudia_T]

I was responding to Joseph's statement accusing Arminian churches such as Methodists of worshipping a false god, insinuating that they will go to hell. I used to be a Methodist and they do seek God's grace. I'm currently Lutheran, which also does not subsribe to Calvinism. raying:

But what Im saying is that if Max Lucado said "I challenge you to find one soul who came to God seeking grace and did not find it"...

What difference would that make if only "the predestined" are the ones who ever seek for God's grace? (unless Im wrong about that)

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

So based on the above, this statement is totally unwarranted. This is blasphemy against God, and an attack against other Christians (not allowed on this board, which accepts both sides as true Christians). You condemn yourself by saying stuff like this, especially if your interpretations of scripture happen not to even be right.

It is, IMO, a bad rule. If the administration, however, chooses to suspend me for an honest answer, then glory to God and I am willing to take it.

If you don't want an honest answer, you probably shouldn't ask the question.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

But what Im saying is that if Max Lucado said "I challenge you to find one soul who came to God seeking grace and did not find it"...

What difference would that make if only "the predestined" are the ones who ever seek for God's grace? (unless Im wrong about that)

Exactly correct. The lost do not seek God without the regenerating transformation of the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact, they are enemy's of God. It is by grace that we are saved, which is not of ourselves, but of God.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[JFox1]

But what Im saying is that if Max Lucado said "I challenge you to find one soul who came to God seeking grace and did not find it"...

What difference would that make if only "the predestined" are the ones who ever seek for God's grace? (unless Im wrong about that)

I don't know if Max Lucado is into Calvinism or not. I think Calvinism reduces people to meat robots. To paraphrase a certain movie: I, meat robot! :smilewinkgrin: :tongue3:

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I don't know if Max Lucado is into Calvinism or not. I think Calvinism reduces people to meat robots. To paraphrase a certain movie: I, meat robot! :smilewinkgrin: :tongue3:

And Arminianism reduces God to a genie in a bottle, waiting for the will of man before he has any power to act and effect change.

I, for one, would much rather be a robot of a holy and just God who is sovereign in all matters than be the follower of a genie in a bottle.

Joseph Botwinick