Calvinism

Understanding the true nature of your fallen state brings you to your knees!... Brother Glen

 

The blindness of non-Calvinists to their own contradictory statements even after they have been clearly shown to them simply amazes me.

Calvinism is a nickname. It is theological shorthand for the doctrines of grace. That is all.

I rest in God's promises which are contained in the whole Bible - not just in a verse here and there that non-Calvinists take out of context in order to prooftext.

Thanks be to God for all of His word,

Ken
Were it not for grace...

 

I have never met anyone that has said that they believe in the bible verbatim but they decided to reject Christ anyway. The fact is that they don't believe because they can't believe. And neither would we if it wasn't given to us.

The Doctrines of Grace doesn't limit your free will. The limit of our free will is bound in accordance to our nature.

What is our nature before rebirth?

A sinful nature.

In this sinful nature we have no desire to seek God or accept him. Man just like any other creature is bound by his nature. Thus his free will is bound by his nature.

Once reborn, you have a new nature. Reborn that you can receive spiritual things. A reprobate can't see God's love nor can he see God's separation. He is blind to it. To him it is non-sense.

A reborn spirit can see these things now because of his new nature. What will a reborn spirit "choose"? The "choice" is obvious, the "choice" is inevitable, the "choice" was preordained.

Who's Calvin? Just kidding. It's a term. A poor term in my opinion. But we have to live with it. This doctrine is far older than Calvin. It is the biblical doctrine of Grace and Election.

Stevie

[ July 20, 2002, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: absturzen ]

 

Yep - it was called Augustianism. Before he came along, you won't find a single church father who spoke of election in the same way he did... You'll find neo-platonics who do and other Greek thinkers, but not Church fathers. They believed that all men had an opportunity and that God elected the Church just as He elected Israel.

 

That's what you choose to believe that's fine by me. But I don't see that in the bible.

Stevie

 

Scott Emmerson,

I see that you have studied the background of Augustine. I too was willing to let God open my eyes to the truth about where this idea came from in that which we call time. The Church Fathers, as you have said, believed that no one was left outside of the possibility of making Heaven his or her home. I read the book, "The Apostolic Fathers" edited and revised by Dr. Michael W. Holmes.

I have heard on the board that some people don't read what other theologians think. This keeps their minds in a totally 'locked up' position. Ideas never hurt a truly saved person; would you agree with this?

 

Ray,

I agree that no on is left outside of the possibility of making heaven his or her home.

But they must hear the word, be born again, respond in repentance and faith, publicly profess their faith in Christ Jesus, and persevere through the whole Christian race in the works that God has prepared for them.

Any disagreement with that?

Ken
The Happy Calvinist

[ July 20, 2002, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

Ken Hamilton,

I prefer to agree with people wherever possible.

I do believe and see occasionally, true Christians who do not persevere in their faith. To me, backsliding means that people are not abiding in Him as God would intend them to be. I John 3:9 clearly tells us that once the Holy Spirit takes residence in the life of a person, He will not leave that person. The Evil one is busy; that is a fact that very few would question.

Some backslide so badly that God takes them to Heaven early. Note [I Corinthians 11:30-32 & I John 5:16 d & e] For some it is sins of the flesh and for others, I personally, believe because they err theologically some picking up spurious views especially if they have international appeal and authority in Christendom. I don't believe that God puts up with their apostasy for too long.

 

doug44,

Interesting post.

Can you imagine God who tells we little Christians to love our enemies, while He, in contridiction to His impeccile nature, allows Himself to have a limited love for only His elect while in fact, hating those poor souls who, as you put it, did not get 'the luck of the draw.' Don't most, new believers first learn John 3:16. 'For God so loved the world . . . . that whosoever believeth in Him . . . ' He not only loved and loves every person, He emphasizes this by saying, 'God SO loved the world . . . '

 

God has a common love for all of His creation. But does that mean He has the same kind and intensity of love for all? By looking at the life of God incarnate, Jesus Christ, we arrive at the answer - no. He had a closer relationship with some of the His followers, the apostles, than He did with His other disciples. And He had a closer relationship with three of the apostles, James, John, and Peter, than He did with the other apostles. Is this not so?

Ken
The Happy Calvinist

 

Ken Hamilton,

All that you said is true. The Lord did have different levels of love for His apostles.

What I am saying is that because of the nature of God to love His created humanity, He does not and cannot love the minority, the elect, and choose to hate or pass by the rest of His creation. Just as His other attributes are pure and unimpeachable, so is His love. No one would dare to say that only at times God is holy, {the attribute of Holiness} but in some instances He is impure. Neither would we say that God is at times just {the attribute of His Justice} and at times He shows Himself less than fair with people. And yet when it comes to determining who gets salvation, Calvinists portray Him as only loving some people. He loves and died for all people. When God decides to be angry with people, He is not limited as to who He is upset with, whether they are sinners or saints. Limiting His love can become inadvertently, the undermining of His impeccible nature to love people.

 

That is, of course, your opinion.

Agreed on both counts.

Absolutely not !! There is a command to go and preach the gospel to every creature, and Calvinists/Electionists obey this command.
The difference is that Calvinists/Electionists preach the gospel as a proclamation that Jesus Christ came to save sinners and that He did so, that He had saved His people from their sins.
That salvation is a finished work, and that the redeemed now has a sure hope in and of Heaven, thanks to the grace of God in Christ Jesus, the Redeemer.

The "others" preach the gospel as a proposal or mere possibility depending on the response of the creature to the goodness of God, and grace is a deserved endowment.

No. Predestined means God predestinating His people to be conformed to the image of His Son.
No one would accept Christ on his own. Can a dead man eat ?

Definitely not God's grace.

 

If God loves everybody, how did He hate Esau?

 

Read Malachi to understand why - it wasn't Esau he "hated," but the nation Edom, whose forefather was Esau.

 

Primitive Baptist,

Lest Pastor Larry remind me again that I have spoken about Esau; I do know this.

But, since you asked the question I believe God's Word is saying that He chose Jacob to be the son of promise leading to the virgin birth of our Lord. Esau was excluded from this grand blessing. Esau was relegated to the barren land of Edom. 'Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated,' has nothing to do with God appointing each to their eternal destiny.

The purpose of Pharaoh in Romans 9 was to make known the mighty sovereign power of Almighty God. [Romans 9:17] Who won--the Lord or Pharaoh? The Lord won through the last plague. Even today, all of the Christian world is hearing about God's power that was mightier than a mere, pagan king.

Did not Pharaoh have access to Moses by way of asking about his God? Pharaoh did not make Heaven because he refused to learn about and accept the God of the Israelites. Rahab and Ruth came into the faith of the Israelites, but Pharaoh was too proud of his heritage and apparently trusted in his own god.

 

If Pharaoh did not make heaven, it is because God hardened his heart to what Moses had to say!!!

Ex 7:4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt,

Now if evey Word of God is true, and God's Word brings into creation the thing said....., then it follows that Pharaoh (by God's decree) was rendered incapable of of releasing Moses and the people Israel!!! I find it unimmaginalble that some would say this is unfair.

People have no argument with God's choice of Noah, and sending the rest of mankind to destruction. Don't you think there may have been people on the face to the earth at that time that didn't know about the coming flood. No warning was given, no alter call.

People have no argument with the choosing the nation of Israel, and condemning the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites
No warning was given, no alter call.

No argument with wiping out an entire nation (men, women, and children). 1 Sam 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. No warning was given, no alter call.

For those of you who would define to God what is fair and unfair, and who give instruction to Him of what is allowed and not allowed, I would remind you in his own words

Isa 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

None can stay His hand, none can resist His will. And when all else fails, and you still think you could improve on God's perfect plan, reread his response to Job!!!!!

 

If you are not one of the elect, you will not want to be saved. Sin has affected your will and desires. It is important understand what we are saying before you disagree.

We are all called to repentance. That is not at issue. The issue is, Who will repent? The answer is the ones to whom God gives repentance (Rom 2:4; Acts 11:18). This is not about a man's theology. It is about what Scripture teaches.