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Calvinism
- Thread starter ReformedBaptist
- Start date
Robert...ah, you base it on your interpretation of Scripture. So do we. Care to venture who is right & who is wrong? & your right, we can stack up more dead guys (with credibility) like starting with Paul, then you can. :tongue3:
We even got some living guys like John MacCarther, John Piper, Ligon Duncan, RC Sproul, Sinclair Ferguson, Philip Ryken, Robert Godfrey, Steve Lauson, Joel Beebe, Jerry Rankin.....some even actively providing Conferences in Orlando:1_grouphug: as we speak.LOL:godisgood:
Thanks for that list of names! I now know who to AVOID listening to from now on! :thumbsup:
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Let me urge charity toward one another in this debate. The Lord has used the messages of non-calvinists in the past to encourage and strengthen my faith. I would not turn a deaf ear to them just because they were not calvinists.
Neither should we shut out the teaching ministries of godly men simply becase we disagree with them on these points. Let's shun such a sectarian and foolish mindset. To me it a mark of maturity that can listen to brothers with whom we may have disagreement.
Neither should we shut out the teaching ministries of godly men simply becase we disagree with them on these points. Let's shun such a sectarian and foolish mindset. To me it a mark of maturity that can listen to brothers with whom we may have disagreement.
OK, so I'm supposed to listen to people who believe salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God and man, with mans response being the determining factor? We know that this & more (for example ) the taking up & the putting down / loosing ones salvation are all directives taught & believed by that contingent. But I do not believe these false theologies so why listen to them? Do you consider it maturity to entertain false theology that is not exclusively God Centered but distorted in the direction of self? I think not nor should any person who claims belief in Orthodox Christian beliefs & DoG.
My theology is not false simply because I don't follow the teachings of Calvin.
Man is not the determining factor of salvation. Salvation is all of God, but man must receive the free gift of salvation. He can reject it. The Jews in Jesus day were proof of this. They were stiffnecked and always resisted the Holy Spirit, who is the one that draws and convicts. To reject the Holy Spirit is to reject God.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
I agree. Thanks for saying what I was thinking.
Orthodox Christianity has been in existence since Christ. Calvin is a mere part of it & could be removed from the equation without ever effecting it. No where does it establish man orientated doctrine. I will therefore continue to reject it. Im really OK with separation & the you go to your church & I will go to mine but dont expect me or my family to legitimize it. Aint goin a happen.
Okey dokey. :wavey:
Do you? do you really!
Last edited by a moderator:
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
You don't have to listen to anyone you don't want to brother. You know that I am studying at a Reformed Presbyterian school. I am not the least bit affected by the fact that they espouse infant baptism.
There are some non-calvinists that I will not listen to, but they are more of the rabid, independant fundamental wack-job types.
RB....you & I both have similar if not the same belief system. This is shared by both Reformed Baptists, Primitive Baptists, Reformed & Orthodox Presbyterians. all of these mentioned insist that salvation is by grace from beginning to end. For us salvation is a gift, in every sense of the word--God's gift for undeserving sinners who cannot be redeemed apart from God's saving grace. The gift is given to those to whom God chooses to give it; & although it is offered to everyone, it is not as you know given to everyone.
This is our position of Faith & outlined in the Cannons of the Synod Of Dort. We don't have to review the Arminian & other no name belief systems that disagree & sometimes in discussion & debate violently so. Last night a so-called brother in Christ assaulted these(Reformed) beliefs as Machiavellian (which was funny) but it displays a thinking type that believes that our beliefs are somehow evil in there very nature. I (and others in BB) have sensed this "below the surface" disregard for Orthodox Beliefs in discussions with our so called brethren & well a sojourner like yourself was perceptive enough to see it rearing its ugly head.
Is it any wonder why my conclusions about interaction with those people is direct & to the point in that I will not be a party to entertaining their viewpoints & their theology. I really have to thank them though for solidifying my own belief system to the point of separation. I no longer go to any church that is not completely a Calvinistic type Church (and that includes my family).
quantumfaith
Active Member
RB,
I recently viewed a youtube of an elderly reformed baptist pastor who was scheduled to retire & so he was instructing the Elders in the interview approach.....1st question was to ask the potential pastor being interviewed to explain Election. Now if he cant or wont explain it said the old Pastor, thank him profusely for coming to see you, give him some money for his trip back & give him a one way ticket to California.
But I dont live in California will be the answer from the young man said the old Pastor. To which you will respond, yes we know but we are sending you there anyway....... to get you off the East Coast.....good bye. :laugh::thumbs:
I recently viewed a youtube of an elderly reformed baptist pastor who was scheduled to retire & so he was instructing the Elders in the interview approach.....1st question was to ask the potential pastor being interviewed to explain Election. Now if he cant or wont explain it said the old Pastor, thank him profusely for coming to see you, give him some money for his trip back & give him a one way ticket to California.
But I dont live in California will be the answer from the young man said the old Pastor. To which you will respond, yes we know but we are sending you there anyway....... to get you off the East Coast.....good bye. :laugh::thumbs:
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Actually, I do agree with what Reformed Baptist said. As I've said before, I grew up in a baptist church pastored by a Calvinist and loved going to 10th Pres in Philadephia for a year when Dr. Boice was the pastor.
I enjoy John Piper and and other reformed preachers and teachers. I have learned alot from them and they challenge me spiritually.
The problem you have is seen in what you wrote later:
The problem is "those people" as you called those who don't agree with you, is that we are your brothers and sisters in Christ.
How do you see a problem Tom? As indicated, I just dont want them trying to impose their theology on me & my family. Ive defined myself very clearly & as the old adage goes, you go to your church & I will go to mine. Couldn't be simpler, right!
John Calvin taught that God draws only those to Himself whom He elects to be saved. This is refuted by scripture:
John 12:32 (King James Version)
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 (King James Version)
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
John 12:32 (King James Version)
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 (King James Version)
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
But I dont live in California will be the answer from the young man said the old Pastor. To which you will respond, yes we know but we are sending you there anyway....... to get you off the East Coast.....good bye.
Yes, what a wonderful Christlike attitude that this old pastor is showing. For someone who believes in grace he displays no real knowledge of having truly received it with this type of callous attitude toward another brother in Christ. And to actually put a smiley face by this and for Tom to agree with this speaks volumes. Thank you for helping us see what you really do think about those who are not reformed.
Yes, what a wonderful Christlike attitude that this old pastor is showing. For someone who believes in grace he displays no real knowledge of having truly received it with this type of callous attitude toward another brother in Christ. And to actually put a smiley face by this and for Tom to agree with this speaks volumes. Thank you for helping us see what you really do think about those who are not reformed.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
The problem is NOT that non-Calvinists are trying to impose our theology on you. I can't remember the last time a non-Calvinist became pastor of a Calvinist church. I don't even think that alot of Calvinists are trying to take over non-Calvinist churches.
The problem is that throughout this discussion you have acted like non-Reformed have an aberent (sp?) theology that is close to heresy.
Personally, I don't like the name calling by either side. If Al Mohler and Paige Patterson can get along in this area without the rancor that seems to cover our discussions, why can't and why shouldn't we?