CALVINISM'S BLIND SPOT

[William C]

If you don't answer my three simple questions in the other post, you will be provoking me to anger

But I obviously can choose to act in anger or not.

Anger, like envy is an emotion that affects the will of man. Like greed, lust or even love.

Greed made the will of the Rich Young Ruler unwilling to become a follower of Christ.

Notice after the Rich young ruler left what Jesus said. "It is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven."

Why would a man's wealth matter if a man is saved by an effectual calling?

Greed is a motivator of the heart. Just like envy. It just so happens that God has chosen to use envy to provoke some that they "might" be saved.

Bill

 

[Frogman]

Bro. Bill,

I can tell you there are significant disagreements here that do not particularly pertain to the argument at hand.

Rather than to go into the full disclosure of such I can tell you Jesus said the words I speak to you are spirit and truth.

Not everything in the Bible is literal. I believe the Kingdom of God, the family of God, the Kingdom of Heaven, and the church are distinct entities, though running parallel.

Why did Christ go to Israel first?

You know he sent the disciples forth and commanded them to go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

You know he told (I think the syrophonecian woman, correct if wrong), it was not meet to give the food of the children to the dogs.

You know the forerunner of Jesus preached the Kingdom is at hand and so did Christ.

These things are all I can answer you. I know this is not enough for you, but for more of my belief from here you will have to get it through another forum, or a pm.

Not trying to be hard to get along with, just trying to stay within bounds of the topics. Actually, I intended my post found in "We Do Not Limit Atonement" concerning missions to be my last in this post; since that post I have decreased my activity here and my demeanor has changed.

I feel I am wasting time arguing points I know to be taught in Scripture.

When scripture are dealt with it is funny to see men who strongly defend one position or the other, mostly for years, only to see them crawfish on those positions as soon as they are visited with hardship.

As my afore mentioned post says, if you read it, I know the Sovereignty of God, because God knew my heart and what would have been acceptable to me, but what would have humbled me, HE HUMBLED ME.


This is enough.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bill:
Notice after the Rich young ruler left what Jesus said. "It is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven."

After which the disciples said, "Who then can be saved?" To which Jesus answered, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

That's the answer. Ask the Spirit to open your ears so you can "hear" it.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by npetreley:
Actually he's talking about considering the cost of being a disciple, who has a more involved role than a believer.

Then why in the Matthean account is the non-disciple in danger of losing his soul?? It seems that christ is equating the failure to take up the cross with unbelief, since unbelievers are the only ones who can lose their soul.

 

[William C]

Originally posted by npetreley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Brother Bill:
Notice after the Rich young ruler left what Jesus said. "It is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven."

After which the disciples said, "Who then can be saved?" To which Jesus answered, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

That's the answer. Ask the Spirit to open your ears so you can "hear" it. </font>[/QUOTE]The bible also says "Nothing is impossible for those who believe"

So, you ask the Spirit to open your eyes so you can "see" it.

 

[William C]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by npetreley:
Actually he's talking about considering the cost of being a disciple, who has a more involved role than a believer.

Then why in the Matthean account is the non-disciple in danger of losing his soul?? It seems that christ is equating the failure to take up the cross with unbelief, since unbelievers are the only ones who can lose their soul. </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly, those who are familiar with the "Lordship" salvation debate know that you can't seperate salvation and willingness to serve. They go hand and hand.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by npetreley:
Actually he's talking about considering the cost of being a disciple, who has a more involved role than a believer.

Then why in the Matthean account is the non-disciple in danger of losing his soul?? It seems that christ is equating the failure to take up the cross with unbelief, since unbelievers are the only ones who can lose their soul. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe I misunderstood. Are we talking about the same passage? I was responding to "consider the cost" not "take up your cross". Here's what I was referring to:

28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish.'

 

[William C]

Originally posted by npetreley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Maybe I misunderstood. Are we talking about the same passage? I was responding to "consider the cost" not "take up your cross". Here's what I was referring to:

28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish.'

</font>

They are both in the same context of Jesus speaking to potential followers. If you try to separate the two you will be supporting the No-Lordship Salvation view that many Calvinist (MacArhur, Sproul) have been fighting against for a long time. The No-Lordship-Salvation view is that 'believers" don't have to be "disciples." In other words you can submit to Christ as Savior and later submit to him as Lord.

Those that hold this view say the same things that you have said about this passage. I don't think you want to be on their side of the fence.

 

[Ray Berrian]

npetreley,

I am sure the Calvinists will appreciate your 'Coast Guard' effort in trying to save their sinking vessel.

I do not rebel against the justice of God, by saying that Christ only gives the effective and 'effectual call' to the elect. After studying the attributes of God most come to the conclusion that He is not partial toward anyone. [I Timothy 2:5]

Your point is understood.