Why do you demand that I stick to scripture alone when Jesus used his whole creation to make his points. Even in his discussion with Nicodemus, he spoke of the winds of the earth and Natural childbirth, etc. In his sermon on the mount he told us to "consider the lilies of the field". Yet you tell me that I must stick strictly to the scriptures. You should do as Jesus spoke, Consider his Creation. </font>[/QUOTE]Okay, I considered the lilies of the field. I still believe in election.
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Calvinism's fatal flaw
- Thread starter William C
- Start date
Jesus also said to Nicademus:
"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"
Note Jesus said, 'how shall ye believe , if I tell you of heavenly things?'
Did Jesus anticipate Nicodemus to answer?: "I am free to believe because I have a free-will. And I can know what is truth because of my life experience and because I see the creation of God."
Before you answer study vs. 13 to note what would be required were man to believe these heavenly things as simply as some would teach. Jesus seems to be saying there is more required than a 'natural' knowledge of God. This is consistent with the whole chapter.
{emphasis mine}
Bro. Dallas
"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"
Note Jesus said, 'how shall ye believe , if I tell you of heavenly things?'
Did Jesus anticipate Nicodemus to answer?: "I am free to believe because I have a free-will. And I can know what is truth because of my life experience and because I see the creation of God."
Before you answer study vs. 13 to note what would be required were man to believe these heavenly things as simply as some would teach. Jesus seems to be saying there is more required than a 'natural' knowledge of God. This is consistent with the whole chapter.
{emphasis mine}
Bro. Dallas
Y
Yelsew
Guest
But, if you do not believe the natural things of God, how can you believe the spiritual things of God? And clearly you deny virtually every "natural" thing of God that is presented! So how can you believe the spiritual things of God?
Knowing God created the universe is not equated to knowing God spiritually. Man cannot really know God through the physical universe. This universe does testify to the presence of God, but it does not produce in man a reverence of God that then cause man to choose to believe the truth revealed through the Spirit.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
Y
Yelsew
Guest
You, among others here make loud pius pronouncements about how God reveals him self in the scriptures, yet you haven't got the foggiest notion of what he is like.
You fail to accept and infact resist the truthes of what God is like that others have found in scriptures which they describe in natural terms so that even the meekest of mankind can understand. Oh blind Nicodemus, may God have mercy on your soul.
Is this kind of like failing to realize that men are dead in trespasses and sin?
Or are truly like Nicodemus, blind, or is Nicodemus the only one in scripture who is blind?
How is it you understand the attributes of God so much, but have not learned of the depravity of man? But refer to me as 'O blind Nicodemus, Nicodemus wasn't blind; he only failed to understand the natural references used by Christ to explain to him the new birth, and Christ revealed to him and ourselves that this is the predicament of all men, failing to understand earthly things, means, you will not understand heavenly things, thus, the Spirit must regenerate you first.
Nicodemus was probably wiser in all things, than you and I put together, still, he did not understand the Spiritual things Christ taught.
Why?
Bro. Dallas
Y
Yelsew
Guest
NO, but if you want to believe that in accordance with your free will to do so, who am I to say otherwise!
But how will you believe the spiritual if you fail to understand the natural?
I'm not willing to say that He was wiser than either of us. He was just as lost as we were before we believed. But I at least understood that the wind bloweth where it may, and that man cannot re-enter the womb and be born again. At an early age I knew that being born again had nothing to do with the physical.
But I at least understood that the wind bloweth where it may, and that man cannot re-enter the womb and be born again. At an early age I knew that being born again had nothing to do with the physical.
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I believe Nicodemus understood this physical fact also; he just didn't want to admit it. Though the circumcision was a sign of the covenant, a Jew was a Jew inwardly; all the sacrifices offered in the tabernacle and the Temple brought by the Jew had no ability to reconcile, but only atone, thus forcing the Jew to look to God for his promise of the Messiah.
Remember, Abraham received Isaac from the dead in a figure?
Bro. Dallas
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I believe Nicodemus understood this physical fact also; he just didn't want to admit it. Though the circumcision was a sign of the covenant, a Jew was a Jew inwardly; all the sacrifices offered in the tabernacle and the Temple brought by the Jew had no ability to reconcile, but only atone, thus forcing the Jew to look to God for his promise of the Messiah.
Remember, Abraham received Isaac from the dead in a figure?
Bro. Dallas