Calvinism's view of regeneration is unsupported by scripture.

Ray,

I agree. It is sad. I remember using this illustration quite regularly as a Calvinist. And to be honest it would be a reasonable argument if there was some link in scripture to being dead and being totally unable to be awakened though faith.

It just seems to me that the biblical teaching of hardening is equivelant to Calvinism's concept of totally depravity, but scripture is clear that hardening is not from birth but comes only after rebellion and living in sin. This also seems true of the analogy of "dead" as it in not refered to as being from birth.

Therefore, someone who was dead in sin would have been someone who had been living in rebellion and was made alive through faith. Meaning that the gospel of truth by the power of the HS made them alive through their belief. This would be possible for those who were self-hardened but of course not those who were being actively and temporarily hardened by God.

 

Honestly Ken, I hadn't really formulated my beliefs on this for sure which is why I presented the post in the manner I did. I've always thought of people being born spiritually dead but I could'nt find any verses in my original search to validate that thinking. So I presented this post as just an inquiry as too when spiritual death occurs.

It was my thought that it possibly could be related to a hardened sinner who was actively living in sin and thus dead to God. Just as we, as believers, are instructed to be living in Christ and dead to sin.

In other words, I really am not sure at this point can you point me to some passages that indicate we are born spiritual dead from birth. Thanks.

 

Yeah, I found that one in my original search along with a few others that were very similar, but being "estranged" and "going astray" are still a far cry from being totally depraved, dead or hardened. I'm not trying to be one sided here. I'm just honestly trying to search this out. I'm currently doing an extensive word study on these three words and/or concepts:
1. Hardening
2. Spiritual Death
3. Total Depravity

The link between Calvinism's Total Depravity and scriptures account of hardening seem to be almost identical except for the fact that hardening is a process that comes after ones rebellion from God and his living in sin whereas Calvinism's total depravity is from birth. Thus, the conflict.

I just recently was studing the concept of Spiritual death in light of these two issues and I'm just not sure where it fits in.

I agree, it must be one of these options. I'm really not sure which it is. The fact that "spiritual" death is not mentioned in the curse might lead one to believe God's reference to death was in regard to physical death and separation from God, but I'm not sure. Scripture also says, "The wages of sin is death." But again this could go both ways. It could be speaking of spiritual and/or physical death. Or it could be saying that we become dead as in hardened from living in sin, thus it is a wage or something you earn for living in sin.

I'm going to have to look into this one some more. Thanks for you comments.