Calvinist Baptism?

[Pastor Larry]

Your intertwining of words like "submit" and "accept" seems to be more of the problem.

The ideas of the words are interchangeable. To accept Christ is to submit to his lordship. To submit to his lordship is to accept Christ. In baptizing, one is publicly testifying that they have done that. These ideas are not really that distinct.

Having been involved in other threads besides calvinism alongside you, and you having the same ability to navigate the BB as anyone, what it "seems", then is this statement is done out of ignorance or dishonesty. Since you are a moderator, I doubt it's ignorance.

Nice personal attack. Unfortunate too. I made a comment about what seems to be the case. That is not dishonest. As for ignorance, it may well be that. I don’t read most of the threads on the board. I pay attention to the ones I participate in and the ones I moderate. As for the rest, I really don’t know.

While I don't bet, if I did, your "analasys" would be proven wrong.

I don’t really know since I don’t follow you around. You seem to be very active on this topic. What you are in the rest, I don't really know. That is why I made the comment from my perspective rather than claiming it dogmatically.

I did, and that is what it "seems" like to me.

That’s not what you said though.

That's the primary responsibiltiy of a shepherd?!?

Yes. Eph 4:11; 1 Tim 5:17-18; 2 Tim 4:2; Acts 20:28; Acts 6:4; etc. He has other responsibilities, but his primary responsibility is the right handling of God’s word.

I didn't realize that conversations here on the BB were to be taken as personal mulligans.

Not sure what that means.

So now you read very little here...but can form deductions on what topics I am involved in? *open mouth...insert foot*

I see you very active on the topics I read. I read very little else, since I am not that interested in the topics. That is precisely why I said “it seems.” I am not qualified to make a dogmatic statement since to do so would be out of ignorance.

In addition, if you read very little here, why are you responding to so many posts? 17k posts is quite a few responses to non read discussions...

Because the bulk of those posts were in the past. Remember, I have been here for almost six years, and I took six months off a year ago or so. Since then, I have posted very little, comparatively. I used to be very active in a lot of threads. Not any more.

I'm sorry, but what you say here is a reflection of you and your ministry whether you like it or not. You sound like Charles Barkley saying "I'm not a role model". The moment you put "pastor" in your screen name, you should have realized what and who you were representing.

I do realize that. I am not sure why you think I don’t. For you, it seems that perhaps the biggest sin is knowing what I am talking about when it comes to what I believe. I am not sure why I should be able to post that, and to post corrections when people post inaccurate stuff. Would you rather I just sit by and let false statements stand? Allow people to go on unbelief thinking they are okay?

Please don’t make this about me. I invite you to call me and let’s talk on the phone. For you to question my qualifications for ministry based on your presuppositions about what I believe and how I should handle those who do not properly represent what I believe seems out of line to me. So I would encourage you to stop. (How’s that for encouragement?? )

On the issue of baptism, I don't see anything in the OP that contradicts Calvinist theology. I would prefer to talk about that rather than me. It is true that Calvinists may use a different word here or there. But the OP contains nothing that contradicts Calvinism.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Also, on these forums, it is clear that you guys agree on some key points.

I would focus on this.

However, I remain confused about Calvinism. Everytime I think I understand it better a Calvinist will say something that completely contradicts what I came to understand. I used to ask a lot of questions here, to get a better grip, but I would end up being taken around in circles, and totally losing track of where I started. It's maddening.

I would encourage you to keep asking questions. There are Calvinists here who will answer and support it. I would encourage you not to learn about Calvinism from non-Calvinists. (I would encourage you not to learn about non-Calvinists from Calvinists.)

But, I remain a Non-cal, and it is mostly the label I reject.

I don't like the label, necessarily. I use it for its historic value in soteriology. I prefer biblicist or Christian, but those terms are often too confusing when used on this issue.

 

[Blammo]

So start a new thread if you really wanted to have help with your objections.
I'm new here, I don't know your personal issues with Calvinism.

I'll do that - Probably one point at a time - As soon as I gather my thoughts.

 

[webdog]

The ideas of the words are interchangeable. To accept Christ is to submit to his lordship. To submit to his lordship is to accept Christ. In baptizing, one is publicly testifying that they have done that. These ideas are not really that distinct.

Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that salvation is a gift. You accept gifts, not submit to them or the gift giver.
If you accept Christ as savior, by definition you had the option of rejecting Him. Even if you want to use submit, to do so means the option to not do so also exists. Submit is not the proper phrase, though, nor is it the one used in the first question in the OP.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that salvation is a gift. You accept gifts, not submit to them or the gift giver.

And Romans 10:9 says that you "confess Jesus as Lord" which means you submit to him. Which is why, among other reasons, I point out that the two ideas are not all that distinct.

If you accept Christ as savior, by definition you had the option of rejecting Him. Even if you want to use submit, to do so means the option to not do so also exists.

I agree. Calvinists believe this, but believe that the new nature makes it certain that the elect will not reject him.

Submit is not the proper phrase, though, nor is it the one used in the first question in the OP.

"Submit" is a very proper phrase, even though it was not used in the OP.