Calvinist churches targeted by Florida Baptist Convention

[saturneptune]

That post was a pleasant change. It was well thought out and rational. Maybe we should be more aware as church members. It only takes one vote to break ties. We are planning now as a church how to handle the baptist churches in the area that accept sprinkling then transfer to our church representing themselves from a church of like faith and order. It is called protecting the ordinances. This is what the local church should be protecting against for the most part. I will grant you that your point about creeping corruption is valid. It should be stopped now.

As far as the BGA, I have never heard of corruption in the organization, and have listened to him for years. The RCC has been corrupt from the start. That is expected.

Maybe I misunderstood the tone of your other threads. My point is, the problem needs to be solved along with proclaiming it.

To PIJ, since you belong to a FBC, what you think about the SBC or my feelings about it make absoulety no difference to me.

 

[JOAN OF ARC]

Thank-you...

http://www.abpnews.com/www/2455.article

Calvinist churches targeted by Florida Baptist Convention
By Greg Warner
Published June 8, 2007

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (ABP) -- Some Baptists in this state say the Florida Baptist Convention is intimidating and demonizing churches that believe in Calvinism -- and doing it with the churches' own money.

Convention executive director John Sullivan last week sent recordings of sermons by Sullivan's former pastor Jerry Vines to every church in the state, apparently at convention expense, that identify Calvinism as a threat to Baptist life.

Thank-you for the article...

I find that we live in such history making times right now and it is very exciting...

I believe Calvinism though has been in our IFB circles for sometime now...and is ever increasing.

Sincerely,
JoA

Galatians 6:9

 

[gb93433]

That post was a pleasant change. It was well thought out and rational. Maybe we should be more aware as church members. It only takes one vote to break ties. We are planning now as a church how to handle the baptist churches in the area that accept sprinkling then transfer to our church representing themselves from a church of like faith and order. It is called protecting the ordinances. This is what the local church should be protecting against for the most part. I will grant you that your point about creeping corruption is valid. It should be stopped now.

I attend a church that does not accept membership from any other church nor any statements from other churches. It has helped to prevent a transfer of membership and those who are not Christians coming from other churches. When I became a member, one of the ladies after she had listen to all of the testimonies in our group realized that she was not a Christian. It was then that she received Christ. She was a member at another church before she decided to attend the same church I attend and become a member. To become a member the people must go through a class which is three hours long, be baptized and give their testimony.

 

[saturneptune]

I attend a church that does not accept membership from any other church nor any statements from other churches. It has helped to prevent a transfer of membership and those who are not Christians coming from other churches. When I became a member, one of the ladies after she had listen to all of the testimonies in our group realized that she was not a Christian. It was then that she received Christ. She was a member at another church before she decided to attend the same church I attend and become a member. To become a member the people must go through a class which is three hours long, be baptized and give their testimony.

I guess my only question about that would be, if a person is a Christian from another church, how would they become a member of yours? If they had already been baptised, how would that work?

To me there is a difference between another church, and churchs where a true relationship with Christ is unlikely, such as the RCC, Mormon etc. Other Baptist churches of some stripes and some reformed churches there is a good chance they are Christian.

 

[gb93433]

I guess my only question about that would be, if a person is a Christian from another church, how would they become a member of yours? If they had already been baptised, how would that work?

To me there is a difference between another church, and churchs where a true relationship with Christ is unlikely, such as the RCC, Mormon etc. Other Baptist churches of some stripes and some reformed churches there is a good chance they are Christian.

If they have been baptized in a Christian church of like faith and practice then great, but they still must give their testimony and go through the class. That sort of thing prevents people becoming from becoming a member at age 5, being baptized because his friends did and then become a member at several other churches without ever giving his testimony or ever showing evidence of his faith or any trust in Jesus. He could be a person who is a deacon like I saw in a large fundamentalist church near Memphis when I was a student. Too many churches assume because the person is a member somewhere else that the person is born again.

I actually had a man get mad at me in church after I baptized his daughter because he told me that she was baptized years earlier and was a member. Those who worked with the youth did not see the fruit in her life that demonstrated she was born again. I ntoiced it too. Earlier when it came to spiritual things she was out to lunch. When she was born again there was an immediate difference.

 

[saturneptune]

If they have been baptized in a Christian church of like faith and practice then great, but they still must give their testimony and go through the class. That sort of thing prevents people becoming from becoming a member at age 5, being baptized because his friends did and then become a member at several other churches without ever giving his testimony or ever showing evidence of his faith or any trust in Jesus. He could be a person who is a deacon like I saw in a large fundamentalist church near Memphis when I was a student. Too many churches assume because the person is a member somewhere else that the person is born again.

I actually had a man get mad at me in church after I baptized his daughter because he told me that she was baptized years earlier and was a member. Those who worked with the youth did not see the fruit in her life that demonstrated she was born again. I ntoiced it too. Earlier when it came to spiritual things she was out to lunch. When she was born again there was an immediate difference.

I have to agree with what you say. Baptism follows conversion, true conversion. Thanks for the response.

 

[JustChristian]

This article is important b/c it tells of an underlying facism in the SBC leadership culture. "If you're not for us you're against us" is the mentality, and is not to be the mentality for the church. Calvinism isn't my cup of tea, but it is one of the most biblically sound arguments for theology out there.

My pastor and I were talking about this topic the other day and while we both differ on our particular views of the more sublime issues, the one thing remains true about this entire issue. Regardless of your theology, is your theology standing as a reason to go out and make disciples or does it stand in the way of your making disciples? Calvinism, at least what is mostly practiced in the SBC, is inherently evangelistic and awfully credible imho. This is another example of facism in the SBC.



probably one of the poorest points I've ever read around here, and there are a lot of very poor points.

The best example was the takeover of the convention by the fundamentalists and their severe mistreatment of the moderates. Once you start these kind of wars it's hard to know when to stop. The focus of the SBC was no longer evangelism but power.

 

[gb93433]

The best example was the takeover of the convention by the fundamentalists and their severe mistreatment of the moderates. Once you start these kind of wars it's hard to know when to stop. The focus of the SBC was no longer evangelism but power.

I am reminded of Gal. 5:15, "But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another."

 

[saturneptune]

No one ever answered my question, if the SBC is so corrupt, which Baptist denomination do you feel comes closest to what God would have it to be?

 

[gb93433]

No one ever answered my question, if the SBC is so corrupt, which Baptist denomination do you feel comes closest to what God would have it to be?

None. Today I look at an individual church and not a denomination.

I pastored a SBC church that for over 25 years had a practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to come and preach. They did not like it when I put a stop to it.

 

[saturneptune]

None. Today I look at an individual church and not a denomination.

I pastored a SBC church that for over 25 years had a practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to come and preach. They did not like it when I put a stop to it.

You had every right to do that. Mormons are not Christian.

 

[Hardsheller]

Does anyone have an update on the OP?

Founders Ministries was supposed to send out the DVD "Amazing Grace' to all Florida Baptist Churches this month.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

What John Sullivan did was in response to this: http://www.founders.org/dvdblog/

Funny the op doesnt mention that. And it included more than just Jerry Vines.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I'm sorry 2 Timothy, but you have that backwards.

Dr. Sullivan originally sent it out. The dvd's are in response to the cd's of Jerry Vines' series he preached at FBC, Woodstock, GA

I support what Dr. Sullivan did. But the cd's went out first before the SBC Convention

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Tom I see you are correct.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

http://www.abpnews.com/www/2455.article

Calvinist churches targeted by Florida Baptist Convention
By Greg Warner
Published June 8, 2007

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (ABP) -- Some Baptists in this state say the Florida Baptist Convention is intimidating and demonizing churches that believe in Calvinism -- and doing it with the churches' own money.

Convention executive director John Sullivan last week sent recordings of sermons by Sullivan's former pastor Jerry Vines to every church in the state, apparently at convention expense, that identify Calvinism as a threat to Baptist life.

According to Tom Ascols blog it was not with convention money.

 

[Hardsheller]

But Dr. Sullivan used Convention Stationary and Convention Employees and Convention facilities to get the DVD's Shipped.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

But Dr. Sullivan used Convention Stationary and Convention Employees and Convention facilities to get the DVD's Shipped.

What is your source for this besides the op? To use such things would be to use convention funds.

 

[Hardsheller]

For Dr. Sullivan to even sign his name as Exec- Director is a use of Convention Funds.

BTW - some of the tapes that the Founders have bought have been mailed to some of the churches in the Florida Baptist Convention.

It will be interesting to hear the fallout.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I am not a Calvinist but I received the dvd's sent out. If you had to pay for them, they would be worth 24.95. (Don't tell my friend Tom Ascol that:laugh They are outstanding. The historical perspective was very good.

Even though I don't agree with them, I learned alot. I also learned alot from the material sent out by the FBC. Southern Baptists have nothing to fear from a clear doctrinal debate. We are people of the Book.

If a preacher tosses the dvd's without listening to them he is very insecure in his beliefs. They did not chage my mind but I thought they honored God and clearly and ably presented Calvinism.