Calvinist claim they are elected.

when you graduated from "high school" or the English equivalent. Did you receive a certificate of completion or perhaps a diploma? Or if you completed a course of study resulting in a degree, did someone hand you something you had not earned? OR did you "receive" what you expected through your own personal effort? Faith is the result of something you do, it is the "Earned thing" that results from that which you did. You "heard" the word of God, the result is faith! Faith is not the work it is the result of a work. Like a diploma or Degree, Faith cannot be given it must be earned! Of course Honorary degrees are available, but they are worthless, except for the honor you receive from being given one. There is no such thing as honorary faith!

Peter is saying "to those who through "God's works" have "earned" faith, a faith as precious to them as the faith that we "earned" by "God's works".

The faith that one has cannot be given to another, and it is not given to the one who has it, it is the result of doing something!

 

JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
That is a to do ain't it? To believe, Jesus said, is a to do. A work. I would not dream of trying to define a word in any other way than Jesus used it. I'll leave the redefining to you.</font>[/QUOTE]Like I said about faith previously, since believe is a form of faith. Believe is the result of what you do. Now how does one believe if one does not hear? Hearing is what we do, believing is the result. Believing is what we possess because of the hearing that we did! Sitting on a previously untried chair is what we do. Believing the chair is holding one's weight is what we have. Seeing someone else sitting on a chair causes us to have belief that the chair will hold our weight as well. Seeing is what we did, believing is what we have!

"To believe" can mean that you don't yet believe and you must do something to believe.

Why is this so difficult for you?

 

Quite right! I just did not carry my illustration to its logical conclusion, which is, that in seeing someone else sitting in a chair causes us to believe it can happen to us too, but until we put our belief to the test through faith, and actually sit in the chair, we do not have the knowlege that the chair will actually carry our weight, and thus negate the need for faith! Knowledge gained through experience normally negates the need for faith! In other words we no longer hope for something, we Know from experience. So, with the chair once we've sat on the chair and it supported us, giving us confidence in it, we no longer need faith, but we do believe based on knowledge that the chair will either continue to support us or that our sitting experience is repeatable with the same chair, and even with "like items". We need not test every single copy of the same article, if one or two of them "passes our test".

 

Now to put a Biblical twist on this analogy.

The Chair to an unregenerate man looks like an electric chair and absolutely HATES IT! Despises it! Want's absolutely nothing to do with it! "You do not believe because you are not my sheep."

God changes the heart of the elect and draws him by making that chair something desirable. A rock solid stone chair with jewels, beautiful... I'll sit in that chair.

 

If people wait for some kind of autocratic selection made by the Lord to bring them into the fold, they are trying to sit in a chair that will not hold their weight, but will deceive as it pivots ever closer to the gates of Hell.

Your election is determined by you. II Peter 1:10 says, 'Brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure . . . ' Jesus calls by His Spirit, but the sinner must respond to insure his or her eternal election.

 

To make your calling and election sure focuses on the confidence a Christian has about his standing with God. A believer hardly has the authority to assure God of his status; actually the reverse is true. The Greek word for "sure" ( bebaian) was used in classical Greek to refer to a warranty deed somewhat like those people use today on houses and other pieces of property. One's godly behavior is a warranty deed for himself that Jesus Christ has cleansed him from his past sins and therefore that he was in fact called and elected by God.

Romans 9:16
"It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."

God's choice, is not controlled in any way by human beings.

If it was man's desire then he would be asking for or seeking God's permission. Isa. 65:1 clearly states this is not the case:

"I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me."

 

Prophecynut,

You said,

Dr. Stephen W. Paine, Ph.D. President and Professor of Greek at Houghton College, Houghton, N.Y. says in The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, p. 1,458:

‘Give diligence (make it your business) to make your calling and election sure {firm}. Here is personal responsibility with reference to God’s calling and choice for them. If ye do (keep on doing) . . . ye shall never fall (stumble). Obedience is not optional in any consideration of Christian safety.’

I agree with you that in the final outcome it is God who takes us to Heaven, but sinners must respond to His call by believing if He is going to elect His people for the joys of Heaven.

Romans 9:22 means that His autocratic, election to Heaven and Hell, is hypothetical. Study the words, ‘What if . . .’

Election is based on the human response to either believe or to reject His grace.

The prophet is speaking to the Jews and is saying that the Lord revealed Himself to the Gentiles; those who did not even seek after Him. You are twisting the Scripture. In fact, in Isaiah 55:6 God says,

‘Seek ye the Lord, while He may be found; call ye on Him while He is near.’

Yes, God calls, convicts and convinces of sins and the need of our Savior, but sinners have the responsibility to respond to His greatest of all love. God tells the lost to 'Seek the Lord!'

We are challenged to make sure we are saved by staying close to the Lord and His church.

I agree with some of your comments.

 

Let's say you decided to accept Christ and later changed your mind and reject him, God can no longer take you to heaven, your final outcome will not be determine my him as you said. This is not security in Christ as He promised when you got saved. Do you realized condemnation to hell is imminent because you are relying on yourself to maintain a favorable standing before God. Do you really want to rely on your ability to insure your salvation? If you have the right to accept him then God also has to give you the right to reject him later. Do you really want that hanging over your head when you slip and fall or are you going to rely on the promises of God?

This is a contradiction.

Election is the placing of a person into office.
Voters decide who is elected.
No response is necessary to make the election official.

God elects us and places us into the body of Christ.
God decides who is chosen.
No response in necessary to make the election official.

The apostle Paul points out quite clearly that God has chosen individuals that they might be His people in Christ. He has not chosen them because of any foreseen faith or good works, but simply according to His own holy and sovereign will (Rom. 9-11; Eph. 1:3-12). This choice by God is a selection or appointment for salvation. Some would hold that He had chosen them to receive the offer of salvation, but Paul repeatedly points out that, like the Jews of the OT, all men are in rebellion against God. Whoever believes in the son has eternal life, all others who continue to reject the Son will not see life, for god's wrath remains on them (John 3:36). They are not elected or appointed for commendation, original sin continues in them without being chosen for salvation.

 

ProphesyNut,
The point is, so long as you believe in the one who provides the security, your security is secure. However, if you stop believing in the security provider, that provider is no longer obligated to provide you security....You are the one who breached the contract!

 

Two shall be dying, one shall be taken the other left behind. What's the difference in them? One asked the Savior to remember him. The other did not believe.

Well said ILUVLIGHT.

 

It's not mans desire uh emm... WILL! NOT MANS WILL ! NOT MANS WILL !!!

 

Ya could be wrong don't ya know!

 

That verse is a PROOF TEXT I.L.V. ! It's a factual statement. It is not man's WILL but God. Pretty simple.. just like NNE SEEKS AFTER GOD. Another proof text that you can't run away from. What does that mean? Biblically please.. don't give me man loving little children ask about God analogies or imperative commands you like to use ignorantly for the indicative. Where is a verse that says PLAINLY, word for word MAN IN HIS NATURAL STATE CAN DESIRE GOD! ... NOT in there bro's.

Post tenebras lux.

 

Perhaps you need to get your nose out of the book and see the evidence all around you!

 

Wes... you stated your philosophy and foundation perfectly...

Take your eyes off the Bible and look to the world and man... Good answer ...