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Calvinist, Jesus and original sin

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billwald

New Member
'Human sin nature' is maybe the only provable Christian dogma. In 6000 years of human history there is no evidence we have become more civilized, only more efficient at doing evil. Or maybe it is evidence of "survival of the least civilized."
 
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JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
dcorbett said:
FRIENDLY discussions, NO DEBATE in here please....and no name-calling, no snide remarks in ANY forum.
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...this, of course, coming from someone who called me a "gnat" in another thread and looks the other way when her friend breaks the rules by calling me a liar.
 
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Dr. Walter

New Member
Crabtownboy said:
In another thread discussing original sin an interesting point was brought up about Jesus.

Christians say that Jesus was totally human and totally God. If at Calvinist say all humans are born totally depraved then it must be assumed they have to believe that Christ was born totally depraved. If he was not born totally depraved then he was not totally human in the accepted Calvinist view of original sin or at least as some have expressed it on this BB. How can this be? I am looking for a rational discussion on this. This seems to be another big problem I see with Calvinist.

Enlighten me.
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You are confusing the human nature with the fallen human nature. Totally depravity was not part of God's creation of the human nature but it is the consequence of sin by "one man" - Romans 5:15-18.

Jesus was born totally human and thus has the full human nature without the post-creation consequence due to the fall. How is this? This is why he was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary. Don't confuse the human nature with the corruption of the human nature. Jesus was born fully human apart from its corruption due to sin.
 
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savedbymercy

New Member
Tom Butler said:
Can we find a clue in the fact the we humans are said to have been corrupted byAdam's sin, not Eve's? Can we deduce from this that our sinful natures are inherited from our fathers"

If that's the case,then it will explain why Jesus did not have a sinful nature, even though his mother had one.
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Jesus was not born out of mary's egg either. So He had no human Father except adoptively by Joseph, and He was not derived out of Mary's Egg. God merely used her natural reproduction process minus her own egg, to form the Lord into the likeness of sinful flesh.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
savedbymercy said:
Jesus was not born out of mary's egg either. So He had no human Father except adoptively by Joseph, and He was not derived out of Mary's Egg. God merely used her natural reproduction process minus her own egg, to form the Lord into the likeness of sinful flesh.
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Pure eisegesis. Jesus was from her "seed".
 
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savedbymercy

New Member
webdog said:
Pure eisegesis. Jesus was from her "seed".
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Thats not her egg. Since when is an egg of a woman a seed ? Being of her seed means He was her offspring, He was the offspring of David, of Abraham.

In case you did not know, the baby Jesus was of the Holy Ghost, He placed the embryo into the womb of the virgin not her egg.

Matt 1:18,20

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

That which was conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost, not of her egg.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
webdog said:
Pure eisegesis. Jesus was from her "seed".
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This is the beauty both of the Bible and of biology. The woman doesn't have the "seed." Only the man has the seed (sperm). Generations have known the meaning of Genesis 3:15 because "seed" (sperm) a woman cannot produce. That is why it makes such a compelling prophecy of the virgin birth. There is hardly a scholar that will deny that Gen.3:15 "the seed of the woman" does not refer to the virgin birth. Why? Because the seed does not come from the woman.

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, (Galatians 4:4)
--The language here is significant. He was not born; but made. His birth was unique, different than others. His seed was from a woman. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. "That holy thing which is in you," the angel said (without being irreverent).
 
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