Calvinist preachers, teachers, theologians

[webdog]

I think you are either misperceiving or totally misunderstanding what they are saying! They are all sound and preach the doctrines of grace!

I'm sorry, but when preaching about coming to Christ using 'you', 'any', etc. it is very deceiving of what they believe. Case in point: On our screen in church the phrase "God loves you and desires a relationship with you" is shining bright. There are non Christians there. I'm sure that not everyone there will be in Heaven someday. How accurate can this be!

 

[jne1611]

Do they? Honestly, in the face of what Romans 3:23 says are sinners? This is what I mean about preaching an "arminian Gospel".

Some do, but none teach that walking an aisle, signing a card or simply praying a prayer saves anyone. I have heard Allistair Begg, a local calvinist preacher preach an arminian Gospel, along with Piper and Macarthur on the radio. You would be hard pressed from hearing their sermons to know they were calvinists.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
I am not being funny, but what in that verse makes you think that I could not preach that God saves sinners from that text? I mean, if He saves anyone, according to that text, they are a sinner. And you don't believe He is going to save all mankind. So what would be the problem with preaching from that text?

 

[jne1611]

I'm sorry, but when preaching about coming to Christ using 'you', 'any', etc. it is very deceiving of what they believe. Case in point: On our screen in church the phrase "God loves you and desires a relationship with you" is shining bright. There are non Christians there. I'm sure that not everyone there will be in Heaven someday. How accurate can this be!

This is what I meant by me preaching different from most Calvinist's. I do not preach this. I'll probably draw fire from some Calvinist's on this one, but I to think that is pretty deceptive if you believe in unconditional election & particular redemption. But that is just me.

 

[webdog]

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
I am not being funny, but what in that verse makes you think that I could not preach that God saves sinners from that text? I mean, if He saves anyone, according to that text, they are a sinner. And you don't believe He is going to save all mankind. So what would be the problem with preaching from that text?

Does the Bible teach that all have sinned...or not? If you preach God saves sinners, you are either being half honest or misleading.

 

[webdog]

This is what I meant by me preaching different from most Calvinist's. I do not preach this. I'll probably draw fire from some Calvinist's on this one, but I to think that is pretty deceptive if you believe in unconditional election & particular redemption. But that is just me.

I appreciate your honesty. Have you ever preached that God doesn't love everyone and He has created some people...even some in that very room...for the sole purpose of destruction? Have you preached that God has created some that He has never loved...never will love...regardless?

 

[jne1611]

Yes. Preaching like eveyone in the room has the opportunity to come to Christ, but believing that everyone doesn't.

If I preach "whosoever will, let him come" I mean just that. Whosoever simply means any one. So if I preach this, there is no deception, seeing that I believe that only the elect will come. And any who come will not be cast out, by faith that is. Do you understand what I am saying about this?

 

[jne1611]

I appreciate your honesty. Have you ever preached that God doesn't love everyone and He has created some people...even some in that very room...for the sole purpose of destruction? Have you preached that God has created some that He has never loved...never will love...regardless?

Yes I have. But as far as the people in the very room, I cannot say that, because only the judgment will prove this.

 

[jne1611]

Does the Bible teach that all have sinned...or not? If you preach God saves sinners, you are either being half honest or misleading.

I am still not following you with this. All have sinned yes, but you don't think that God will save all of them do you? If not then you find your self in my corner preaching that some of those "all" will perish ,and if any of those "all" are saved, God saved them. So then God' saves sinners.

 

[Brother Bob]

If I preach "whosoever will, let him come" I mean just that whosoever simply means any one. So if I preach this, there is no deception, seeing that I believe that only the elect will come. And any who come will not be cast out, by faith that is. Do you understand what I am saying about this?

Not to be mean, but when you preach the above do you quietly keep back the part where you believe that some in that room can't come?

 

[webdog]

I am still not following you with this. All have sinned yes, but you don't think that God will save all of them do you? If not then you find your self in my corner preaching that some of those "all" will perish ,and if any of those "all" are saved, God saved them. So then God' saves sinners.

I simply mean that since God saves sinners...sinners (all sinners) have the ability to put their faith in Him.

I understand you to be the exception and not the norm amongst calvinst preachers.

 

[jne1611]

Not to be mean, but when you preach the above do you quietly keep back the part where you believe that some in that room can't come?

No need to bother with that. They won't come anyway. Hello Bro Bob. I was wandering where you were.

 

[jne1611]

I simply mean that since God saves sinners...sinners (all sinners) have the ability to put their faith in Him.

I understand you to be the exception and not the norm amongst calvinst preachers.

Most likely, I guess I am. I think it dishonest to disguise my beliefs in order to fill a church up.

 

[webdog]

No need to bother with that. They won't come anyway.

...then what's the harm in stating that? The "elect" would like to know that, I'm sure!

 

[jne1611]

I simply mean that since God saves sinners...sinners (all sinners) have the ability to put their faith in Him.

I understand you to be the exception and not the norm amongst calvinst preachers.

I see your meaning then. But I hope you see where I am coming from as well.

 

[jne1611]

...then what's the harm in stating that? The "elect" would like to know that, I'm sure!

Well, personally, I have never found where I am commanded to preach anything but the gospel to the lost. Now there have been a couple of times when I have preached on some of these things when they are present, but I try to preach in the direction that I feel that God has burdened me with.
I was kidding with Bro. Bob any way. We have gone several rounds together.:laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

I have noticed at funerals that the Calvinist instead of using the words of "all", they will say "God's people", or when it says "whosoever", they will use the words "the saved".

jne; Do you do that?

 

[webdog]

Well, personally, I have never found where I am commanded to preach anything but the gospel to the lost.

But if you believe calvinism is the correct interpretation of the Gospel...

 

[jne1611]

I have noticed at funerals that the Calvinist instead of using the words of "all", they will say "God's people", or when it says "whosoever", they will use the words "the saved".

jne; Do you do that?

No I don't.

 

[jne1611]

But if you believe calvinism is the correct interpretation of the Gospel...

Well, see that is where you and I may or may not find a common ground when it comes to doctrine. I don't for instance approach sinners with the truth of eternal security or try to give them a heads up on the doctrine of the trinity. Some of the things I tell them may involve those things, but at large I am not going to give them all that. I believe they need to know they are a sinner & have need of salvation through Christ Jesus if they will ever see heaven. I believe stabilizing in sound doctrine should come after salvation. But you may feel different. What is your method?

 

[jne1611]

I mean, think long on this one. Even in your own belief of what the gospel is. Would you not agree that deep in the heart of the gospel are so many truths that a sinner cannot even began to comprehend & only a child of God can appreciate? So why not share what you know to be the gospel in Scripture "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" And then share the other truths with him after his conversion.