Calvinist preachers, teachers, theologians

[jne1611]

To be sure, I believe in unconditional election. But I believe that to talk of God electing some to be saved & then in the same breath saying that God did not determine any to go to hell from eternity is highly questionable. I am not trying to start a crossfire as I know I could get shot at from both sides, but there is no way you can support the idea that God chose the elect from eternity & then say that all who go to hell, just never made their way into God's plan?

 

[Blammo]

To be sure, I believe in unconditional election. But I believe that to talk of God electing some to be saved & then in the same breath saying that God did not determine any to go to hell from eternity is highly questionable. I am not trying to start a crossfire as I know I could get shot at from both sides, but there is no way you can support the idea that God chose the elect from eternity & then say that all who go to hell, just never made their way into God's plan?

Okay, you take my side, I'll take your side.

Are there any verses in Scripture that a Calvinist can not preach? If so, how come they have not been found yet?

 

[Brother Bob]

We will not start lying just to satisfy your ill-conceived notions of what we believe. Sorry.

I don't think I even mentioned you whatever!!!

Are there any verses in Scripture that a Calvinist can not preach? If so, how come they have not been found yet?

They don't like John 3:16 too well.

To be sure, I believe in unconditional election. But I believe that to talk of God electing some to be saved & then in the same breath saying that God did not determine any to go to hell from eternity is highly questionable. I am not trying to start a crossfire as I know I could get shot at from both sides, but there is no way you can support the idea that God chose the elect from eternity & then say that all who go to hell, just never made their way into God's plan?

As I said before, glad to see a Calvinist stand up for what they advocate jne;

 

[jne1611]

Okay, you take my side, I'll take your side.

Are there any verses in Scripture that a Calvinist can not preach? If so, how come they have not been found yet?

What kind of question is that?
And to be sure, I am no Calvinist.

 

[jne1611]

I don't think I even mentioned you whatever!!!



They don't like John 3:16 too well.



As I said before, glad to see a Calvinist stand up for what they advocate jne;

Very funny.



http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb095_ZNxdm824YYUS&utm_id=7923

 

[Blammo]

What kind of question is that?
And to be sure, I am no Calvinist.

It's a legitimate question, whether you are a Calvinist or not.

 

[jne1611]

It's a legitimate question, whether you are a Calvinist or not.

Well, what do you mean? Any verses a Calvinist can't preach? I could ask the same of you, but what would you say? I have no problem with Scripture.

 

[Blammo]

They don't like John 3:16 too well.

Oh, Brother Bob, you know that is one of their favorite verses. How many times does James have to tell you that?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You only have to emphasize "whosoever believeth", and ignore "world".

 

[jne1611]

Oh, Brother Bob, you know that is one of their favorite verses. How many times does James have to tell you that?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You only have to emphasize "whosoever believeth", and ignore "world".

No you missed it. You have to be able to read the rest of the Bible to.

 

[npetreley]

Not to start a quarrel, but, are you separating the choice of God to bypass saving those who He did not choose from eternity? Are you taking the stand that the decision was only in time? If so, tell me where you get this in Scripture?

Sorry to step in here, but IMO, you're both right. God implicitly makes the decision to pass over some when He explicitly elects others. So it is decided from eternity past who will be conformed to the likeness of Jesus, and who will be left to their own ways.

The "left to their own ways" illustrates why Pastor Larry is also right. God must actively bring the elect to repentence and salvation, but God does not need to do anything to the non-elect in order to make them reprobate. So it is misleading, at best, to say that God elects some to be saved and others to be reprobate. That implies that men are in some neutral state, and God flips the state of some to be saved, and flips the state of others to be unsaved or reprobate.

 

[Blammo]

Well, what do you mean? Any verses a Calvinist can't preach? I could ask the same of you, but what would you say? I have no problem with Scripture.

I can't think of any verses a calvinist could not preach.

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh, Brother Bob, you know that is one of their favorite verses. How many times does James have to tell you that?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You only have to emphasize "whosoever believeth", and ignore "world".__________________

I know I know I know I know:BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :smilewinkgrin:

 

[jne1611]

I can't think of any verses a calvinist could not preach.

Me either.

 

[Blammo]

No you missed it. You have to be able to read the rest of the Bible to.

Yes, you are right.

 

[whatever]

Not to start a quarrel, but, are you separating the choice of God to bypass saving those who He did not choose from eternity? Are you taking the stand that the decision was only in time? If so, tell me where you get this in Scripture?

If you don't want to start a quarrel then you came to the wrong place.

:laugh:

Anyway, no, I am not. The question of whether God actively chose some for reprobation or not is separate from the question of whether He did it in eternity or in time. Scripture speaks of election before time but not reprobation, as far as I know anyway. The Bible says that the saved are saved because God chose from the foundation of the earth to save the saved. The Bible says that the lost are lost because they refuse to repent and believe the truth. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh, Brother Bob, you know that is one of their favorite verses. How many times does James have to tell you that?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You only have to emphasize "whosoever believeth", and ignore "world".__________________

Using the above definition I can't think of a scripture they can't preach either. :laugh:

 

[Pastor Larry]

I believe that this inconsistency is the reason for a lot of confusion. When one talks of God electing some to salvation, but passing by the non - elect & only a one sided predestination. Anyone can see the fact that if God's election of that number to be saved was eternal, then the rejection of the rest was equally eternal. This is the reason of accusations of inconsistency. I believe we as preachers should preach as we know the Bible teaches. And not try to dress everything up so as to take the offence of Bible doctrine away. This has been an occasion to much of the bashing of Calvinism.

Show us a place in Scripture where "election" is used of those who go to hell. I have no problem saying that some are predestined to go to hell. I do have a problem saying they are elected to go to hell. I think the words are important.

There is no doubt that the election and rejection are eternal. But the rejection is based on man's sinfulness. It cannot be separated from that.

I have no inclination to remove the offense of the gospel.

I do take offense when people make stuff up about what calvinism in the mainstream believes.

 

[jne1611]

If you don't want to start a quarrel then you came to the wrong place.

:laugh:

Anyway, no, I am not. The question of whether God actively chose some for reprobation or not is separate from the question of whether He did it in eternity or in time. Scripture speaks of election before time but not reprobation, as far as I know anyway. The Bible says that the saved are saved because God chose from the foundation of the earth to save the saved. The Bible says that the lost are lost because they refuse to repent and believe the truth. That's all I'm saying.

I agree with you on the fact that reprobation is spoken of as happening in time. But there is no way to separate what God has done in time from what He decreed in eternity. I am not against you, just making my stand on the issue.

 

[Blammo]

One time I sat through an entire sermon and I only remembered one line. Somewhere near the end of the sermon the pastor said, "that's why we are calvinist". That is the only thing I remember from the message.

Do you guys think I was predestined to not know I am a calvinist?

 

[jne1611]

Show us a place in Scripture where "election" is used of those who go to hell. I have no problem saying that some are predestined to go to hell. I do have a problem saying they are elected to go to hell. I think the words are important.

There is no doubt that the election and rejection are eternal. But the rejection is based on man's sinfulness. It cannot be separated from that.

I have no inclination to remove the offense of the gospel.

I do take offense when people make stuff up about what calvinism in the mainstream believes.

I understand your feelings. I have no Scripture where the word election is used concerning the destiny of the lost, but you said it all with the word predestined, so I guess were on the same page? I am just saying that God's decision to leave them in their sins was not a choice made in time. It was made in eternity. I am not saying you are trying to remove the offence of the gospel, but in my experience, most Calvinist's are very bold to say that God has chosen only a few to be saved & that unconditionally, but then turn and say the Scripture is silent about the other side in so few words.